witesoxfan

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 10:00 AM) I am not switching arguments. You made my point. You have to spend money to sign good players. Besides, if the White Sox do improve just a little bit, the cost for signing a free agent will become a 1st round pick if they wait. Again, I wouldn't go 4 guaranteed years for Martinez. 3 with performance based incentives to make it 4, but he is perfect for the White Sox line up. Obviously dependent upon price. We can argue that until the cows come home, but I agree his bat would look good in the lineup. I just don't think the price is going to match up for what the Sox are willing to pay compared to others. If it does, that's awesome. At that point, they may as well go out, spend big money on Robertson and Miller, bring in a couple decent starting pitching flyers, sign or acquire a left handed outfielder who is good defensively, and see what happens.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 11:10 PM) 27. Brett Anderson, SP: The best gamble of the 2014 offseason is Anderson, still just 26 years old, still throwing hard from the left side despite myriad injuries. Because he’s coming off back surgery, he’s a bargain worth pursuing, big markets and small, for the significant upside. One of these years, he’s going to throw a full season, and when he does, his teammates will be thrilled they’re wearing the same uniform. from yahoo.com/sports (Jeff Passan, Free Agent Tracker) Couldn't we have said the same thing about Erik Bedard after he was traded to Seattle? "One of these years, he's going to throw a full season and prove to all of us that it was worth it." Bedard's inning pitched starting with his first year in Seattle (2008): 81, 83, 129.1, 125.2, 151, 75.2 http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...r01.shtml?redir Erik Bedard never put up a full year and when he was finally sort of healthy enough to put almost a full season, he was no longer very good. I just don't think Brett Anderson should be in the cards for the Sox unless it's as a late flyer in January and only if he's asked to be the 5th starter at the very most. We can talk about Carlos Gonzalez's injury history, but it's nothing compared to Anderson's.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 09:12 AM) Trade deadline is not a good way to judge. Teams could be budgeted out, or may be looking at a different guy. The offseason is quite different. Teams aren't committed to the same players, etc. Hahn knows if he could trade Viciedo. If he doesn't want him and can't trade him, he will be non tendered. If he is tendered. He either wants him or knows he can get something for him. Yeah, I agree with this. Not mentioned here is the possibility that the Sox were looking and hoping for better players too and only dealt those others when they knew they frankly had to get rid of them. If the Sox want to get rid of Viciedo next year at $4.5 million, there will be a team that is willing to take a chance on it.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:26 PM) He attack me I didnt like it that much. No he did not. He said Jake Peavy was talking about pitching for the Cubs prior to game 6 of the World Series. He also indicated that he and Jon Lester would be a package deal to the Cubs. There was no attack. Re-read it. QUOTE (peavy44 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:29 PM) We in need of starting pitching yes we are. They do not need a $100+ million starting pitcher. Jon Lester does not make sense for the White Sox.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:21 PM) if only he wouldn't mind pitching as a starter. he really could help. Again, he doesn't mind pitching as a starting pitcher and is perfectly fine with it and capable of doing it. He just prefers pitching out of the bullpen. You can like both prime rib and filet mignon, but perhaps you prefer prime rib. That's perfectly fine.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:18 PM) big surprise- Abreu named finalist for AL ROY award along with Shoemaker and Betances Over/under on percent of vote: 99.9999% Abreu I am taking the over.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:19 PM) Since when is starting pitching an area of no need? Well, they surely don't need to spend $100 million on a 30 year old. That's more along the lines of what I meant.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) Im not cubs fans so shut ur mouth. He wasn't saying you were a Cubs fan, he was referencing Jake Peavy talking about teaming up with Jon Lester for the Cubs next year. Also, please take a moment to read through the board's posting guidelines. Telling someone to "shut ur mouth" would be an example of a personal attack, which are not allowed. Please refrain from doing so in the future. QUOTE (peavy44 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 04:42 PM) Just raise the price up for the cubs if u cant get him. It's not an XBox game. It's not in good nauture to submit artificial bids to increase the price of a player for a rival team unless you are willing to pay that price for that player. The Cubs may offer 6/$100 and the Sox come in with 6/$110 with a vesting option for the 7th thinking that the Cubs will come back over the top and ultimately the Cubs decide he's not worth that much. Now you're stuck with a monster contract in an area of no need. If the Cubs want to sign him, let them sign him.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) I'd also like to point out that since I heavily rejoined the discussion the votes went from 23 for and 25 against to 25/25 . Seriously though I think that most people's minds were made up on this subject long before this thread. Any of you voters out there who were on the fence but reading the thread swayed you one way or another ? Nothing in this thread has, but I've gone from "it's ridiculous and preposterous" to "for the right price, it makes sense" over the course of the season. I don't think the Sox will end up with him but they'll definitely have interest.

Not that he necessarily needs seasoning in the minors, but Viciedo may have an option left. It's always hard to tell, but even if he didn't, they could attempt to assign him to the minors. If he passes through, then great; if not, the Sox get exactly what they wanted anyways. That would be far, far less than ideal but it's an option.

A foot injury beats the hell out of a shoulder or elbow.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) My thing with this whole argument is even at 20M a year the payroll only goes up to ~71.....If you believe Rock when he said that the payroll will be over 100M when the Sox are ready to compete that still leaves a good deal of cash to address other needs. You have to start paying your players eventually. Gillaspie and Eaton will be arb eligible in 2016, Sale and Quintana's salary goes up, and there will be others who are also reaching arbitration at that time, never mind any other signings they make. $20 mill a year is really not a good investment to make on a DH.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:16 PM) Matt Swartz's highly celebrated arbitration projector was released on MLBTR: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/proj...s-for-2015.html Here's the Sox section: White Sox (6) Ronald Belisario (4.151) – $3.9MM Tyler Flowers (3.148) – $2.1MM Dayan Viciedo (3.123) – $4.4MM Hector Noesi (3.006) – $1.9MM Nate Jones (3.000) – $600K Javy Guerra (2.133) – $1.3MM This should be a pretty reliable frame of reference for discussion until the actual figures come in. I think they will be freeing up $8.3 mill of that. And, at the very least, it will be $3.9 mill.

This is not a big loss.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) But I think that's the crux of the argument, though. Literally all of us want him on the team at a low price, but do you want him at market price? The board is split almost exactly 50/50 on the idea that he should be, essentially, the biggest part of our offseason, because the price he is going to command would definitely be the biggest expenditure for us, to the point of affecting or sometimes preventing other expenditures. That's a fascinating split, to me. Primarily because nobody is coming to mind, but who was the last pure DH to hit the free agent market? The only guy coming to mind right now is Dunn. I'm just curious to compare contracts between those types of players. I think that's the hardest part for me is trying to evaluate Martinez's value. He is a great hitter and he would likely be a productive hitter (at least a 100 wRC+ type hitter) over the life of a 4 year contract, but a perfectly average hitter who does nothing else is not worth $10 mill, let alone the hypothesized $20 million a year Martinez may get. He also brings literally nothing else to the table other than emergency catching and some 1B. Will teams overpay for the bat or value him appropriately given his age and limited defensive abilities? My gut leans towards the former but it's hard for me to say at this point. I do think he will get a 4th year or, at the very least, a vesting option with easily attainable milestones with a large buyout.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) I just can't see any situation where 3/$48 gets it done. The Mariners will beat that. The Royals should at least match it. Orioles would match it assuming Cruz doesn't accept the QO. Astros are under pressure to raise the payroll. Only takes one. I agree. It's basically just a very generalized way of stating that I'd have absolutely no problem taking Victor Martinez at the right price, but that I doubt the right price is actually achievable.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) It's Boras now B-R sucks and I should have double-checked. That was literally the entire time I was away from the board. My fault.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) Well, I was just kidding. 13 mill option for Rios - yikes. It will be fun watching Boras peddle him around. Alex Rios's agent is Paul Kinzer. He has never had Scott Boras as his agent.

I just want to clarify my vote in this poll. The question is "Do you want Victor Martinez?" My answer to that question is yes, assuming that we are defining "want" as "want Victor Martinez to play on the Chicago White Sox" and not "want Victor Martinez to send me a naked selfie." I absolutely want the former, I absolutely do not want the latter due to the bodily effects gravity plays on people. However, it's all cost dependent. I think Chicago White Sox mentioned 3/$48 as his limit; I agree with that. Really, anything much more than that on either end is getting too long and too expensive. This is a who has, for all intents and purposes, zero defensive value and he is getting older. Those types of players historically do not return a ton of value and are typically overpaid based on previous performances.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 04:53 PM) At the very least, this guy is your "well nothing worked out this offseason" back-up plan platoon partner for Viciedo, right? Or was that Jordan Danks? No, it was Lyle Mouton.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) Oh yeah. They have to do that for risk to losing him in rule 5 draft right? But after that, they can put him back on the 60 day DL because of the TJ surgery, correct? No, there's just no 60 day DL (or DL in general, for that matter) in the offseason. If they didn't want to keep him on the 40-man, they'd have to non-tender him or DFA him, both of which would put him on waivers and he would be in a different organization next year. It would be a bad thing to remove him from the 40-man.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) 40 man is really 34. Konerko (retiring) Lindstrom (free agent) Jones(60 day DL) 35. Jones will have to be re-instated from the 60 day DL.

Vlad Jr's swing looks like a carbon copy of Vlad Sr.

Mike Adams' option was declined by the Phillies. That's definitely a guy I see the Sox calling.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Oct 28, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) that is what we though/think.. Still think she has a little something else in her.. One day I want to get one of those dog dna tests to see With my parents dog, you definitely see both the lab and collie coming out in him as he is a great fetcher and great herder (when the cats out in the yard, it takes one "where's the kitty?" before he's off and sniffing for her and chasing her back to the house, whereas their two black labs, which were my sister's old dogs, have no clue what's going on). And yes, whenever my dad hugs my mom, he barks and growls but nothing with any ill intent, primarily just because my mom is the maternal figure for him and he's "protecting" her.