caulfield12

You guys are all going a bit insane...I guess there was the Albert Belle Exception, but that was 50% to piss off the other owners when he didn't get his way with a hard salary cap.

Greg voted for Elrockin due to his overwhelming positivism...maybe next time?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 01:57 PM) If you get trading Kahnle, you get the rationale that he might get hurt or decline. Depends who you trade Kopech for, and the rationale for doing so. Obviously, if another team's willing to tremendously overvalue him (and how likely is that, since he's close to peak already)...trading out of concern for a future injury (or watching Burdi go down), that's going to end up valuing him at 75 or 80 cents on the dollar anyway since every scout/GM will legitimately have the exact same concerns (heck, all they have to do is watch the Mets' struggles in 2016 and 2017 in keeping their pitchers healthy.)

Let's not forget Mr. Jenks and Mr. Crede from the held onto too long list, along with Jesse Crain, Gavin Floyd and I suppose you could throw Humber and DeAza on there as well, not that we were going to be blown away with offers for those last two guys.

For those of you who want to get mad at Hahn, JR, the Q trade, the "lacking Gleyber Torres" move for Kahnle, you can watch this in order to get even more upset. http://www.milb.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?con...83&sid=milb Mr. T-Junior does have 20 errors in 82 games at SS, so there's that. And 30-45 error seasons are not uncommon at that level. So I'll take the more positive approach of being wowed we scouted him so well originally and got by with a fairly middling contract offer compared to what he would get today on the open market. 1. Avi 2. Swarzak 3A. Leury Garcia 3B. Melky Cabrera 4. Any veteran starter (Holland/Pelfrey/MiGo/Shields) 5. Yolmer Sanchez 5B. Dan Jennings 6. Tyler Saladino

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 11:52 AM) Forms of insurance you wont even know about? WTF Insurance you still pay dearly for, but doesn't actually cover anything you need in a time of crisis. YAY!!!

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 11:01 AM) I suppose any return can be debated but one constant theme I've noticed is any critic of the deals Hahn has made to this point say "one player short" or "a tick light on the back end." Sale trade: "should've included Devers instead of Basabe & Diaz" Eaton trade: "great but should've pried Robles instead of Giolito" Quintana trade: "back end should've been better with Candelario" Fraz/DRob/Kahnle trade: "Clarkin should've been 3rd piece w Andujar or Florial" Given that we have basically been shopping most of these guys for over a year, Rick and team have a pretty good idea of the true market and what the best offers available. Given that Rick has shown patience, even with some impatience on this board, it's fairly clear that he didn't just jump on any offer to dump these guys. Given that there are still about 2 weeks left until the deadline, Rick's hand wasn't forced and ultimately these met the threshold of the type of return they could expect. I'm extremely happy with these trades both individually and overall. I believe that the Sox did ample due diligence and extracted the appropriate returns that are realistic. I want the Sox to seek potential superstars and the more high end chips the more likely we hit on a few. Our system has plenty of B/C prospects that will likely be okay or surprise. Give me the blue chippers all day every day and I'll sacrifice the back end of deals. One of the guys on the Score when he heard the list of Sox players thought it was going to be Gleyber Torres. One wonders how close that was to reality, and what addition the White Sox would have had to make...?

Where's Jared???

Yankees' fans royally pissed they used to have both Q and Kahnle...not to mention could have simply kept Robertson for a new contract extension two years ago. Btw, MLBtraderumors has a huge discussion thread from all baseball fans at that trade article...interesting stuff to hear perceptions from fans of other teams.

Btw, what number is Jimenez at Winston Salem? Robert was 56 for Cuba and IG, but think he has a different DSL number. I want to buy a Mrytle Beach Pelicans Jimenez jersey to mess with Cubs' fans. Wish it had Cubs' logo/patch on sleeves.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:56 AM) Yeah, the Cards you might get Kelly and the Rockies maybe Pint? I dunno...I think we're getting a bit drunk on prospects. The thought of moving Avi for a guy that we are hoping can do what Avi is doing right now seems a bit counterproductive to me... But holding him through the end of his contract does what exactly? They will offer him salary arb while he agrees to go elsewhere for 4-5 year deal?

QUOTE (Username @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:47 AM) Sounds about right. Only teams I can think of with those needs: Rockies Cardinals Dodgers? Seems like a stretch Truly fascinating one would be either Joc or Puig (marketing) coming back for Avi...but especially that first name. Or some type of deal to split the cost for Rusney Castillo's remaining contract...say, 75-80% paid by Boston. If Avi were to be dealt and they were sure Delmonico couldn't handle a corner spot.

Called it...bill is dead, have to move on to tax reform and budget reconciliation. The problem is losing those potential offsets in Medicaid savings AND ever Senator furious they still have to go on record with a vote that has no chance of passing but that will be hung around their necks from primary challengers and/or the Dems in 2018 and especially 2020. See Flake and Heller, in particular.

QUOTE (Username @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:50 AM) I think they'll still add a starter. Rutherford was the only guy of value they lost, still think they could build a package for a rental and not give up Torres/Frazier. Unless its Archer, Cole or Sonny Gray...

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:45 AM) Everyone has been spoiled from previous trades. It's hilarious that people are complaining about this deal. One Fangraphs article and suddenly people think Kahnle is the second coming. People were HOPING we'd get Soto from Washington for Robertson and we do one better and package the three and land Rutherford. Think about the package agreed to for Robertson in the winter and what Detroit got for Martinez. I think this is a good return for the Sox. Or Madson/Doolittle....they have the track records compared to Kahnle. No idea how he responds to that pressure cooker and constant media scrutiny...facing the Red Sox at a packed Fenway, Toronto, Baltimore, etc. Almost all NY road games are sold out in most MLB markets.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:06 AM) Yeah, I tend to agree with your take here. It's very easy to start bundling anything left of value that we have to go after "that one last guy," but you probably are going to lose out on additional value had we been patient and taken a calculated risk. I find it difficult to accept the argument that a guy that is currently dominating at the ML level is likely to regress to nothing, but simultaneously throw a ton of stock into a kid from A-ball becoming a good mlb player. I argued that it might be worth it to do this for a guy like Robles, and so if the White Sox truly believe in Rutherford, then it is difficult for me to criticize the FO. But I agree with you and some others here - we likely overpaid to get "our guy," and I truly do think Kahnle has a chance to be a pretty dominant reliever for the Yankees as they make their run over the next several years. We are stopping Cubs by cancelling out Q for WS matchup, haha. Most NY Yankees fans don't even believe they will make playoffs after this deal, even...wanted another starting pitcher instead.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 03:51 PM) I would say this is a safe bet considering Albuquerque is also a mile high (actually higher than Denver, 5,312') and has even thinner air due to the desert. EDIT: I have always wanted to say "higher than Denver," because there's not many times when you can say that and have it be true. Mount Fuji, Mount Everest, K-2, lol....Pacific Squared League.

QUOTE (Username @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 05:38 AM) Last big trade chip right? Unless Abreu or Avi hit the block I guess. Logjam of Leury, Yolmer and Saladino...not to mention Hanson.

Think of all the 18-20 year olds that have debuted in the big leagues...the best prospect in baseball has the stuff to handle it or he doesn't. The Red Sox and White Sox and rest of baseball believe quite strongly in him. (After all, he once ate 225 Twinkies in a single week.) And a related question comes to mind...other than Byron Buxton, what other BA/BP consensus #1 milb positional players have completely flopped in the last 20-30 years? Any names comes to mind immediately? Getting to that point had taken nearly 21 months of navigating the byzantine laws that allowed Moncada to leave Cuba legally, unlike every other star baseball player smuggled from the island. Moncada had hopped countries, landed in Guatemala, stayed in a hidden location with armed guards, made his way to the United States, thrilled teams in workouts and found himself waiting for Dave and Jo Hastings – a St. Petersburg, Fla.-based CPA and restaurant owner who served as his agents and stewards and proxy parents – to figure out where he was going to play. Forty-eight hours before the flight, Moncada was at Habana Café, the restaurant Jo runs, leaning up against an island in the kitchen. Jo and Carlos Mesa, an older Cuban player who had served as Moncada’s mentor and confidant, sat nearby. Dave Hastings was in the final stages of negotiations. Teams had streamed in and out of the restaurant the previous month making their pitches. The San Diego Padres wanted to give Moncada a shot at going right to the major leagues as a teenager. Other teams pushed hard. Ultimately, it came down to the most classic of baseball matchups: Red Sox vs. Yankees. New York wanted Moncada at $25 million. Hastings said another team was over $30 million. The Yankees refused to budge. Hastings said Moncada would go elsewhere. The Yankees pulled their offer. Hastings called Eddie Romero, the Red Sox’s VP of international scouting, and said: “We’ve got a deal.” Just like that, over the course of two minutes, a 6-foot-2, 205-pound, switch-hitting infielder with game-breaking speed, legitimate power and a jeweler’s eye went from being convinced he was a Yankee – “I really thought that’s where I’d end up,” Moncada said – to the Red Sox. Moncada, Hastings and Mesa started high-fiving. Jo sat off to the side, quiet. They stopped celebrating and looked at her. Jo was never quiet. They wanted to know what was wrong. Nothing, she said. It’s great. She just … it was surreal. “I feel numb,” she said. Silence permeated the kitchen until Moncada broke it. “And I,” he said, “feel rich.” They all laughed and spent the next two days preparing to head to Boston and make the deal official. During that time, the future crystallized for Moncada. Even if he was playing second base, Dustin Pedroia’s position, and even if the Red Sox’s roster burst with enough big-salaried players to keep him buried in the minor leagues for years, Moncada refused to resign himself. Maybe it was the hubris of a 19-year-old, maybe the self-assuredness of someone who believes he’s destined for greatness, but when Moncada finished that steak and burger on Feb. 25, 2015, he vowed his next trip to Fenway Park after signing would be sooner than later. “Next year,” Moncada said. “I tell myself I’m going to be there next year.” Jeff Passan/yahoo sports

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 05:17 AM) Well he is a soft tosser who strikes nobody out and is always injured. Maybe he has a chance to be a 5th starter but I doubt it. The deal was mostly about rutherford. 89-93 is similar to Q. Unless Q is now going to consistently throw 93-95 for the Cubs. It's the secondary stuff that's the problem. And we can use all the quality LHP relievers we can get for when the team's fully competitive again.

Except when/if Rutherford becomes a stud...at least a 2-3 war player, if not higher. We knew the were going to dump Robertson's salary for ages. That's the least surprising move of the year. Six weeks ago, Frazier was going to have to go into the August claiming period to be moved. Kahnle vs. Rutherford/Clarkin essentially becomes the trade. Clippers becomes the closer and auditions for the Sox and every team in baseball through August 31st.

So now two former Pirates in Hanson and Polo with NL mindset... http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/yank...zeRYY1AwJ80t.97 Baseball America trade analysis Clippard salary being taken back perceived as a key element of acquiring Rutherford....still have a good opportunity to deal Tyler these next six weeks as well. Melky likely to go in August, potentially.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:45 PM) I view the skewed numbers coming out of Charlotte the same way I view the artificial numbers from a lot of places in the PCL. The park factor has skewed his numbers, IMO. Given his poor numbers v LHP, & poor numbers away from Charlotte, & his decline in performance over the course of the season, & this org's s***ty track record with prospects, I'm naturally concerned. I hope that I'm wrong, & I hope that Moncada overperforms. But I have reasons for my doubts. July performance much better than June. The wrist/hand injury really set him back but he learned to play through it. That's 50-75% of the reason for his mid year slump right there.

Only guy of significance was AZ #4 prospect....the second was around mid teens, coming from a pretty darned poor system in the first place.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:39 PM) it's not a marketing move, seriously, what about this rebuild gives you that idea? This kid has maintaining #1 prospect status all year for a reason. Look beyond the slash line and see a guy that isn't going to learn how to be a big leaguer facing minor league pitchers. He's 22 and had about 200 PA above A ball coming into this year, including his "flop" last year in his 30 odd PA in MLB. Boston thought he could help them down the strech, obviously that was optimistic, but the Sox got this kid 4 months in AAA and he more than held his own. Closer to 20 at bats.... By Andrew Battifarano / MiLB.com | July 19, 2017 1:16 AM ET The next time Yoan Moncada steps out on the field, he'll be donning a big league uniform. After landing third-ranked Yankees prospect Blake Rutherford in a blockbuster trade with the Yankees, the White Sox will call up baseball's No. 1 prospect and reliever Brad Goldberg from Triple-A Charlotte prior to Wednesday's game against the Dodgers, the club confirmed Tuesday. "We're not bringing him here to sit, we're bringing him here to continue the development that needs to take place in Chicago," White Sox GM Rick Hahn said. "He still has some work to do, he's obviously still very young, but we feel that he's ready for that next challenge that comes at the big league level." Moncada has amassed a .282/.377/.447 slash line with 12 home runs and 36 RBIs in 80 games with the Knights this season. He represented his native Cuba by suiting up for the World Team for the second consecutive year during the Futures Game earlier this month. After hitting .236 in June, Moncada turned it around in July, compiling a .283 average with two roundtrippers and six RBIs over 13 games. Originally signed by the Red Sox for $63 million in March 2015, Moncada was acquired by the White Sox last offseason along with third-ranked prospect Michael Kopech, No. 11 Luis Alexander Basabe and No. 25 Victor Diaz in the Chris Sale deal. The second baseman went 4-for-19 during an eight-game stint with Boston last September. "There's gonna be growing pains here. He's not a finished product," Hahn said. "I don't expect any of these players as they make their debuts here in the coming months and years, despite how highly anticipated they may be, there's still gonna be an element of development that's going to happen in Chicago. And the thought is that it's time for Yoan to get that opportunity to take that next step." In three seasons in the Minor Leagues, Moncada has hit .285 with 35 home runs and 136 RBIs in 267 games. Goldberg (3-1) compiled a 2.58 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP with four saves in five opportunities over 28 relief appearances with Charlotte. The 27-year-old was tagged for four runs in one-third of an inning for Chicago in early June. Andrew Battifarano is a contributor to MiLB.com. Follow him on Twitter, @AndrewAtBatt. This story was not subject to the approval of the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues or its clubs.