caulfield12

Flavum, surprised at you. Actually, there's 1/3rd of me waiting/hoping for them to shock the world and make that $100+ million free agent splash and the skeptic/doubtful side expecting us to miss out on Upton, Cespedes and Gordon for the typical Sox reasons. One thing's for sure, this board would be a lot more excited/optimistic/hopeful with that big splash addition. Without it, the general feeling is going to be mostly skepticism and "prove it!"

Would the White Sox pay Markakis $31.5 million for three years on the free agency market? That's the main point. And would it be enough of an upgrade to make it worthwhile (same with Fowler, Span, etc.) Probably not. Avi has little to no value right now, and the Braves would certainly not trade Inciarte straight up for Tim Anderson...not to mention the fact we'd suddenly have no SS or C of the future, essentially the two most important positions on the diamond.

Vernon Wells and Gary Mathews JR, not so much... They have been stung often and hard. It's ironic the "evil" Disney Empire was the one who ended up with the World Series trophy, and big spenders like Moreno and Illitch have ended up with egg on their faces (although obviously the Tigers are still a much healthier organization than they were when Buddy Bell was manager and had the worst record in the AL).

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:11 PM) Unless Trayce and Micah get traded again, they will not be in the big leagues next year more than a late call up/pinch runner. Montas is the only one that has the potential to be anything more than an average major leaguer. The Sox cannot develop positional players so I'm fine trading lower level prospects for All Star black-hole filling third baseman. Right now, the Dodgers are projecting Thompson to platoon with Pederson in CF, Micah with Kiki Hernandez at 2B and Montas in the pen/AAA/or packaged for a frontline starting pitcher. That means Van Slyke and Ethier/Crawford (best deal available to Friedman) are likely gone. At least one of those three. Since they just went to the trouble of trying to project an image of solidarity between Puig and Kershaw down in Cuba, it's either they are set to keep Puig and repair the off-season PR damage/not sell low or the greatest con game in history. http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...trade-with-reds

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) I agree with everyone that says we need to make another splash so we're not stuck in the middle. That said, while I'll be disappointed if we miss on one of the of'ers, I'm not going to be pissed off about the direction of the team cause I don't think we've given up anything we're going to regret in the future. But we can't completely dismiss out of hand the opportunity cost of 1) not having Semien, Montas, Thompson, Johnson, etc., over the next six years at cheaper rates, 2) the fact that we're essentially wasting money on Robertson for another year if we're not legitimately competing, 3) the fact that if these moves don't pan out we're going to be left with a "starting over/rebuilding" decision yet again before 2018 because of the departures of Lawrie, Frazier, Cabrera all coming at the same time. It's almost guaranteed to happen if we don't field a playoff team for two more years because the revenues will continue to decrease and media attention decrease in the face of the Cubs' resurgence. On the plus side, we still have Anderson, Fulmer and Adams. It absolutely has to be attached to another big bat because you can be sure Detroit's going to continue to add, KC has their two year window remaining before a rebuild, Minnesota will have a full (healthy) year from Buxton and Sano and they competed for a wild card spot until the final week, CLE added Napoli and Rajai Davis and they're still not done with marketing one of their young starting pitchers for another piece...there's just too many variables with injuries and non-performance to believe they can be better than 3-4 teams in their own division the way the team is currently constituted. And there's no luxury now for failure from Tim Anderson and Carson Fulmer. Finally, not having a long-term solution at the catcher spot and hoping/praying each year isn't a very sustainable plan. So JR has to swallow hard and allow for the first $100 million plus contract contract in White Sox history. Without it, the team would predictably end up in a terrible position negotiating for media rights in 2018/19 with a major rebuild and no marketable players if Sale, Abreu and Rodon were to be jettisoned.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 07:42 PM) I agree to an extent. I could definitely live with Saladino at SS because we surrounded the infield with guys that can defend and hit. I'm also fine with a platoon of Laroche/Avi at the DH spot ONLY if we get Upton. So really, Sox sign Upton, I'm perfectly content with the offense. In terms of starting pitching, I'd be willing to take some gambles on Brandon Beachy, Tim Lincecum, or Edwin Jackson Medlen and Capuano are the only test cases so far for double TJ surgery...the Beachy situation as well, right? Buehrle's been mentioned. Gallardo would probably be too expensive, and certainly wouldn't fit with an Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis or even Ian Desmond signing.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...trade-with-reds Comprehensive analysis of the trade by ESPN gives White Sox and Dodgers winning marks, questions what the Reds were thinking... Looks like there's a good chance Thompson and Pederson could be platoon partners in CF. One thing is for sure, between Van Slyke, Crawford, Ethier, Pederson, Puig and Thompson, at least one of those players has to go (and the Dodgers would prefer to dump Crawford or Ethier and get younger).

Only if they don't improve RF, DH, SS and possibly add a veteran starter and/or reliever...in other words, no significant additions from here until ST. Whether it's the 2004-2005 or pre-2008 additions (Danks/Ramirez/Quentin/Floyd/Linebrink/Dotel), the White Sox and now the Cubs have shown that it's always going to be an equal combination of smart trades and youth/development/talent evaluation that makes for a winning organization. Obviously being in a position to select Kris Bryant and having the Astros pass on him for Mark Appel helped. Their offensive future wouldn't look nearly so bright without both him and Schwarber, as Baez and Soler have been exposed to some extent. The Arrieta pick up was obviously huge as well.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/626/article/p2p-85342200/ Trade from Dodgers' perspective. Looks like Micah will be LH platoon partner with Kiki Hernandez at 2B (they didn't trade for Frazier directly because they were fearful Justin Turner's knee wouldn't hold up at 2B), Thompson figures as the 4th/5th OF (defensive replacement/PH) and then Montas could end up in the pen, AAA rotation or part of a package of/for Fernandez, Tyson Ross or one of the young Indians' starters.

Fernandez is only "possibly" being made available because of the dysfunctional organization/Loria and rumors he's (shock) unhappy with the direction of the franchise and unlikely to sign long-term/extend...if you can't figure out a way to take advantage from a marketing perspective of a kid like that in South Florida, I'm not sure what you can say other than good luck to Giancarlo Stanton, Barry Bonds and Don Mattingly.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) I just saw this. Made a thread about it lol. Too many misses with Trout and Pujols on the roster means that Moreno has to do something more substantive because they're a middle of the road, borderline contender as currently constructed.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 05:35 PM) There were heavy rumors a few years ago that they didn't care for each other No new oufielder and Saladino at SS means the Frazier deal is essentially for naught... Hopefully Abreu has some sway with Cespedes. Bringing any NL player to the Sox brings some level of trepidation, two (that includes Puig, Ethier and CarGo) just seems like asking for trouble. Gordon and Cespedes at least have both proven they can excel in our division and are more comfortable fits compared to the higher price tag and streakiness of Upton.

QUOTE (soxsider11 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:55 PM) What about adding span to play CF? I would honestly like span and upton with eaton sliding over. Defense is upgraded and adding two solid OBP to this team would really help Span and Upton aren't happening with LaRoche still on the roster... At best, you can afford one outfielder at this point. A declining Span coming back to the AL Central doesn't quite make you a legit contender, either. Need one more big bat and possibly Ramirez returning for one year to SS or another bullpen piece.

An All Star from a marketing perspective, maybe...more useful close to his roots and brother in So Cal than the Sox.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:26 PM) 4/100 gets a deal done with any of the remaining outfielders, imo. The per year on that is enough to entice any of them to sign, imo. I think the more likely deal is a longer deal with an out at year 3 or 4. Not for Upton.

Desmond remains the fallback option from the Big 3....but there would still be a lot of disappointment and the lost draft pick. That said, there's a ton of talk about his atleticism allowing him to easily convert to an outfield spot. I doubt they will give up the draft pick for Fowler or sign Span...those are just marginal upgrades, comparatively. Same with Parra, Austin Jackson, Travis Snider, Victorino, etc.

Wonder who they will play at 3b. Chisenhall went to the OF and the Latin prospect was a bust, so it's possible they bring in Phillips or Kendrick and move Kipnis to 3b. Then you're talking a much more dangerous team...but with Brantley out it's flawed. Gomes, Kipnis, Lindor, Santana, Napoli, Phillips/Kendrick and Brantley would be the best offense in the division unless the Tigers add one of the big remaining bats on the market.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:11 PM) Montas was not going to play a big role in next year's bullpen anyway. We weren't going to give up on him as a starter yet. Maybe...maybe not, we'll never know what would have happened had he remained on an all in, win now constructed roster. Obviously Sale was pushed into that role in 2010. Guess we will see with Fulmer, as it stands....with Danish, Beck and Webb on the outside looking in. Danish with his delivery and ability to throw harder in short bursts would be the next logical conversion candidate. Obviously, long-term, Fulmer absolutely has to succeed as a starter and replace Danks or Johnson.

QUOTE (BigFinn @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:04 PM) I voted for Cespedes. Upton and Cespedes are so close that the value of the lost pick matters when choosing Upton over Cespedes. But don't be surprised if the Sox go for Gerardo Parra, instead. He could be a platoon partner for Avi Garcia, or he could be the every day right fielder. That way the Sox save their money to sign a mid-level RH starting pitcher to a short term deal, somebody like Mike Leake. That offense without the big bat comes up short unless you are sure LaRoche can bounce back. Nobody knows that for sure, not at his age. Offense has to be more of a priority than replacing Erik Johnson at this point. And Parra's defensive metrics have been on the decline recently.

There's also more of a hole in our theory of creating a "super pen" with Montas gone. Right now, our pen is average or maybe a tick above but certainly not an overall strength unless Nate Jones is 100% reliable. He Looked good last year (better tha expected, actually), but April and May is a different animal than meaningless games late in the season.

Gordon makes the most sense from a two year perspective, and he would definitely remain in LF. Cespedes has the AL experience and success there (in our division to boot), the Cuban tie-in with Abreu and possibly Ramirez, the fact that his age makes the new two year window the time we have to go for it a good fit and the lack of draft pick attached (which makes him more expensive than otherwise.) Character-wise, clubhouse leadership, it's Gordon for sure. Cespedes is at best a mixed bag in terms of his past history and problems in Boston and Oakland. He absolutely shouldn't be in CF... The problem is he is asking for 5-6 years and Gordon 4-5 and both are at least one if not two years too long.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) I would cry tears of joy if Hahn ended the offseason by getting Cespedes and Gerardo Parra. Two guys aren't feasible. But it has to be one more.

Neutral feeling right now until we know who is starting in RF and SS and DH. If it's still Saladino, LaRoche and Avi, it's a fail because that team isn't enough. Now Hahn is announcing to the world he has to have either Cespedes, Puig, CarGo/Blackmon, Ethier, Gordon, Upton, etc. That's a dangerous position to be in with free agents or opposing GM's. We ended up minimizing the value of Sanchez/Micah and maximizing Thompson/Montas, basically. If it's Parra platooning with Avi, it's better but still iffy depending on what Gerardo has left in the tank. Since the White Sox hate longer term deals, Cespedes, Puig, CarGo, Gordon and Ethier (with cash back) make more sense than Upton (financially) but each one is fraught with risk. With that said, they absolutely have to get another headliner.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) That is what you want. Bad baseball and high draft picks. You get that, and you still aren't happy because that isn't what they were going for but what they did achieve. They do have more talent on the team now than they had 3 years ago, and it will continue to trend upward. I do agree they either have to spend money or trade for prospects, but all of your other complaints are just made up. The fan shaming doesn't happen. Hasn't for years. It isn't getting old. What is getting old is you using every complaint you can think of not caring about accuracy to appeal to the doom and gloomers. You really should post at WSI. Your moaning would make you a hero. They whine about everything there, from the stripes on the pants being changed, to patches on sleeves, to parking lot attendants not smiling at them, to ushers hitting on other ushers. Nobody has ever blamed the fans at all. Sure. All we hear about is 2012. Once again, what franchises that haven't made the playoffs for seven years running have perfectly contented fanbases?

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) So not endlessly b****ing and moaning means you just believe everything is rainbows and daisies? Please name all the teams who haven't been to the playoffs for seven years without fickle fanbases...? Stringer Bell could do a better job imo. If Upton didn't sign, they just could send Omar and his shotgun to close the deal, along with Brother Mouzone. At least that would be more effective.