caulfield12

The Braves want to dump Markakis and might send prospects along with to sweeten the pot or subsidize the remaining $31.5 million due over three years...

One rumor is the Cardinals are offering Gordon around $80-90 million for five years.

Can Ethier still play CF 100+ games? Not sure we'd want to keep moving Eaton from a corner to CF and back again on a daily basis.

Why would the Reds also give up Cozart? It would be the equivalent of us trading Adam Eaton...if you want to be realistic, Mesoraco's more of a possibility but also extremely unlikely for a different set of reasons.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2015 -> 12:45 PM) There's really no such thing as a low-risk, high-reward signing. Esteban Loiaza, Scott Kazmir, Colin McHugh, Jose Quintana, Bobby Jenks, Sergio Santos, JD Martinez

Why? Will Rongey stop being overbearing and condescending and magically produce a new and improved personality that doesn't shove down how great the front office is down our throats at every turn? I would honestly prefer Scott Merkin.

QUOTE (BigFinn @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 10:48 PM) How would you feel about a trade with San Diego: Adam LaRoche for James Shields. The Sox take on a big contract, but Shields is a still serviceable 3/4 starter. I don't think LaRoche is serviceable anymore. Shields will take away whatever remaining payroll flexibility we have to add a big bat. Not that the odds are that great of doing so. It would ONLY make much sense if you were trading away Quintana to support your offense, then adding Shields as essentially your #3 after Sale and Rodon. Still not sure what he has left in the tank, though. His stuff has degraded considerably from 2013.

There's no doubt that Cespedes and Eaton on the corners and Thompson in CF would give the White Sox a much better overall defense and a MUCH more exciting team. Cabrera would become the full-time DH and LaRoche would be essentially a PH and defensive replacement for Abreu. Once again, a win now move that still leaves the White Sox exposed to injury/quality depth issues and struggling to get league-average production from SS, 2B and CF (and possibly catcher). That said, it's 100% better than having 4-5 potential line-up holes, as is the present case. (You'd be simultaneously improving two positions by pushing Cabrera into LaRoche's spot at DH). Still think they'd need to get more offense from the middle than what Sanchez and Saladino are likely to provide, assuming Lawrie is a 1-2 WAR player. The problem is that at his age (assuming it's accurate and not in Alexei Years) you can't afford to give six years to Cespedes (let's say $160-170 million for six years) any more than you can afford to give $115-130 million to Alex Gordon for five years. Anything more than 4 years for Cespedes and 3 years for Gordon is playing with fire. As much as it's easy to assume we can heavily backload deals and easily dump Cespedes in the future, that doesn't happen quite as often as one would imagine with these huge free agent acquisitions...

Whoever signs Adam Dunn to a one-day contract for the SoxTalk softball game wins for sure...

But how many times last year did we hear how all of those FA moves weren't going to really set us back at all...or the Samardzija trade and fatal non-move at the deadline? 1000 times?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:21 PM) Just remember, the plan last year was to "acquire big names via trade and open the team's wallet for big bats". This was also not the first time we had tried that plan. Those who do not learn from history... See Boston Red Sox for 3 of the past 4 years. DD will attempt it again, inevitably. The difference of course being that Danks/LaRoche/Cabrera/Duke and even Robertson wouldn't stand in the way of their going out and spending again and taking their losses in terms of sunk payroll costs. When we take a hit like that, such as Dunn, Rios, Danks, LaRoche...there is seemingly no moving on as the FO continues to attempt to extract any value possible unless it's someone like Keppinger, Bonifacio, Downs, Ohman, Belisario, Paulino, MacDougal or Linebrink that's under the $10 million threshold. Heck, even the Teahen deal was significant enough it forced the Sox to include Edwin Jackson in that particular trade in order to dump the dollars remaining.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:18 PM) At the very least, right now you have to wait because the MLB domestic violence response is literally unprecedented. The rule is brand new and has yet to be used. Until you have some context for how at-risk you are for losing him for months/a season+ if there are multiple issues, you have to leave him with the Dodgers. From everything out there, they've backed off any assertion that he assaulted his sister or a family member and that whole investigation has cooled off significantly from how it was originally reported out of Miami. Chapman will probably be the one who ends up in hotter water, albeit he doesn't have the stigma of Puig's history.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:13 PM) He seems like just a horrible teammate. Also think his skills have already diminished. The prevailing theory is that he's bulked up way too much and also lost X percentage of his fast-twitch muscle memory...and his bat speed has also slowed significantly from 2013-14. It's more of a conditioning/work ethic issue than anything. Sosa went through the same transition, albeit a chemically-enhanced one.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) I really liked the Puig idea for a while, and it still intrigues me, but I think he has one too many red flags attached at this point, plus his injury history. But can you imagine Eaton, Lawrie, Abreu, Cespedes, Puig and Sale in one clubhouse together? At least Ventura would be earning his money like Mattingly did in LA with guys like Kemp, Greinke, Hanley Ramirez and Puig on the same roster. If they didn't end up stuck with LaRoche and could get a similar subsidy to the Thome deal...Hanley Ramirez would even start to make sense. And that's getting scary. And just hitting everyday compared to 3B or LF should prevent some of the injury problems.

Haha...well, only Jerry Jones would be making that move anyway. We did have Wil Cordero, Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, Jaime Navarro, D'Angelo Jimenez, etc.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:03 PM) Sign Upton. Sign Cespedes Trade Anderson for Frazier. Legit contender. Who is the owner of that team? Trump? Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder? I don't even think Anderson alone would be enough for Frazier...for CarGo, yes. Trading for declining iconic/franchise players who are overvalued because of their marketing value in those cities just doesn't seem like the best idea in the world. If they're going to do that, I'd almost rather they took a huge risk and brought in Aroldis Chapman, Puig and Cespedes and created one of the most interesting teams in the history of the game...as opposed to our current status of being one of the most boring/irrelevant teams in the league.

The Giants and Cardinals are looming out there as well...and the Royals have two OF openings, unless they're totally convinced Dyson and Orlando can handle RF. Since they've only spent about $40 million total (J.Soria and re-signing Young) so far, they have to be considered huge players for Cespedes and obviously Gordon. When the musical chairs have stopped, there will just be way too many teams out there with significant resources who will be able to outbid the White Sox. The Tigers would be yet another, and they're already quite familiar with Cespedes and vice-versa. Seems he was very comfortable in that market, although obviously he was dynamite for NY until the post-season.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) I doubt that's true. But if it indeed happened...the amount of backlash from not only the fans but probably from the other executives will be huge. KW hopefully has learned to keep his mouth shut about not spending $1 for Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis/Desmond when you only have 50 cents. Well, the reason you only have 50 cents is because of a series of bad moves and mismanagement that has accrued over time to the point where you're stuck in neutral with no clear direction in sight. Even if you somehow managed to win the bidding for one of those names, the odds of bringing in two impact players without damaging the farm system significantly are about zero unless you're willing to roll the dice and trade Sale or Q.

The problem is what "non-rental or two years before FA" player is out there that Hahn could justify trading Fulmer and/or Anderson for and not completely short circuit the rebuilding process like the Samardzija move/non-move in July partially did? If they weren't trying to compete 100% in 2016, it's even more inexcusable to have kept Robertson's salary on the payroll when the Sox actually could have gotten something back for him last year from the Yankees. Puig would have made sense before the off-season hit, but now the Dodgers pretty much have to keep him because the possible net return has been pushed so low...Jose Fernandez? Matt Harvey? Well, that doesn't address the offense. And it's just as inconceivable to imagine trading for Giancarlo Stanton and JR taking on that amount of salary. There's just too much risk involved trading Anderson OR Fulmer for someone like CarGo and then turning around and seeing the payroll bloated even further. We've already added Lawrie and Avila's injury risk/s, and Eaton is always in danger of going down the way he plays the game. What seems most likely is the addition of a Parra, Travis Snider or Austin Jackson "placeholder" move in the OF...even then, many aren't convinced Hahn's 100% ready to throw in the towel on Avi Garcia, unfortunately.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 12:06 PM) How much work is left to do? Depends on your perspective. If you think the Sox can "contend" in 2016 then they still have a boatload of holes and needs that have to be upgraded on probably a limited budget because of an expected drop in season ticket sales. If you think they are still biding their time perhaps for 2017 or 2018 when some of their highly regarded prospects may be ready, than they are probably close to being done. Mark It would be pretty much unprecedented in recent Sox history. We followed up competing in 2010 with Adam Dunn. I'd even say last offseason was a bit of an aberration, in the sense that they were trying to "fast forward" or jump start the competitive cycle without having the revenue bump from 2013 to justify the new spending (other than the idea that season tickets were going to be up around 1,500 a game in 2015, the rationale for adding Cabrera at the time). Assuming we're going to see a net loss of 3,000-4,000 tickets (1500-2500 per game overall down) heading into the season without adding something significant (Frazier OR Desmond and Chris Davis/Upton/Cespedes/Gordon), it's just nearly impossible to imagine committing to two more long-term salaries that would end up being higher than the average for the Abreu deal if you added them together in aggregate. It's also just as difficult to see Hahn giving up on Anderson or Fulmer for a two-year rental already in his 30's in Frazier (who would be adjusting to a new league to boot).

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) Just give me one of the OFers at this point and then add Frazier if possible That can only happen if they're willing to accept someone not named Anderson or Fulmer. Just don't see any type of package (Montas or Adams, Micah, Thompson, Avi, etc.) that will get it done. It also seems they would prefer Lawrie at 3B rather than 2B, as they're probably more content with Sanchez at 2B than Saladino at SS. They pretty much need to go ahead and add Desmond to go with Upton/Cespedes/Gordon or they're just going to be too far away...one player alone isn't enough to make our offense as competitive as it needs to be, especially when it's a low contact/average defense type who goes through extreme hot and cold streaks during a season like Upton and Cespedes are prone to. In terms of price/value, they're MUCH better off with Gordon/Desmond than Upton or Cespedes alone. The problem is that there are another 5-10 teams like the Cardinals and Giants who have the same idea about Gordon, who looks like he will end up signing for $90-110 million over four years. Without the draft pick attached, Cespedes could end up in the mid 100's, and that's way too steep for the Sox historically. Heck, $100 million for two "very good" years of Gordon and two likely declining ones when they most need his production (2018-2019) is a huge risk as well.

It's a classic Catch-22. If they go after someone like Cespedes and Gordon, it's back to 100% win now mode...and they won't get the number of years of a Heyward or Upton (5-7?), so that's preferable from a financial standpoint. The other problem is that both those guys might take 3 year deals but only if they get huge yearly salaries for giving up one or two years in contract length. That said, if they were to sign Cespedes or Gordon, it virtually forces them to go after someone like Desmond (at the very least, bring Ramirez back) and probably another veteran starting pitcher as insurance for Johnson and the rest of the rotation (unless they want to send Montas/Beck/Turner out there to take their lumps). Buying Desmond "lower" but certainly not cheaply some amount of sense...but then again you're not really improving the defense with that move. There's been a lot of speculation Desmond could be moved to the outfield due to his athleticism (see Zobrist/Figgins/Tony Phillips, etc.) but then one of the biggest and most obvious weaknesses in the current starting line-up would have to be Saladino at SS (along with Garcia in RF and LaRoche), leading to the conclusion the White Sox would stick him at their weakest or second weakest current position overall. Desmond does bring some speed on the basepaths and good XB pop to the dish, and there's no overstating how much we need to improve our offense at every position outside of Abreu/Eaton right now.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) I have a time machine and I went and checked and Upton and Cespedes are both way better than anyone picked 25 or later. Mike Trout says hello.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:50 AM) Plus signing cheap short term stop gaps is a way to help build for the future. Just like other rebuilding teams in the past, we may have someone producing early on and then trading in June/July. That hasn't worked well at all the last two seasons.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) I forgot which analyst was talking about it, but whoever it was mentioned that Matsuda may be open to signing a one year deal to come play over here just to get the experience of living in the US and playing MLB and then figuring out if he wants to stay over here or go back to Japan next offseason. Could be an interesting 1 year option. Then you have to move Lawrie to 2b where we actually have some depth and turn around and find another 3b or move Lawrie back again in 2017... Not helping much in terms of building towards 2018.