caulfield12

The next wave consists of Dexter Fowler, Gerardo Parra, Denard Span and Austin Jackson, although Jackson has been trending in the wrong direction of late. Fowler is the only one of the four who received a qualifying offer and will require the team that signs him to surrender a draft pick. He is also likely to be the most expensive; one baseball insider estimated that he's looking at a deal in the three-year, $42 million range. The third wave (or two) includes Will Venable, Rajai Davis, Alex Rios, David Murphy, Steve Pearce, Shane Victorino, Ryan Raburn and Jeff Francoeur, all of whom have something to offer without necessarily being 500-at-bat-a-year guys. The Chicago White Sox appear set in the outfield with Melky Cabrera in left field, Adam Eaton in center and Avisail Garcia in right. That said, the Sox ranked last in the American League with 622 runs and a .686 team OPS in 2015. Can they stand idly by and let Upton or Cespedes sign elsewhere with an offense that sad? http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14342400...outfield-market The most creative idea is turning Ian Desmond into Ben Zobrist or Chone Figgins, essentially...and playing him all over the field.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:58 AM) be that as it may, if all things stays the same, going into the convention for the sox, i really wonder how the sox will spin this. on top of that, i wonder how they will deal with a worst turnover in purchasing season tickets or weekend pkg. are they going to say, this is a 3 yr plan and this is a minor set back or will they tell the truth, the sox have 2 contract of 28 mil and they want that off their books. That's not even counting Cabrera and Robertson...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:49 AM) I don't really care where you pencil in Perez or Gordon to the White Sox line up since they won't be on the team, but Sal Perez wouldn't bat 3rd or 5th. He is about a .700 OPS guy.his offensive game has been in decline for a few years now and he is still young. Like Lawrie, except he's the most important player on his team in terms of leadership, not unlike Molina in St. Louis. Btw, an area the White Sox have been sorely lacking since the departures of Buehrle and Konerko, unless you're counting LaRoche's Christian outreach efforts...

Fine. You can hit Gordon third and Perez fifth. Although I'm sure you will argue the new and improved Lawrie or LaRoche should be there instead. Maybe Gordon's OBP numbers are still too low? Lawrie has similar OBP numbers and isn't as good an overall hitter, especially compared to others at his position.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 07:13 AM) Nelson Cruz was 5 years older than Davis will be, when he signed his contract with Seattle. Davis will be 30 in March. In today's market, he should be worth $25 Million per year, on a 7 year deal. The Orioles offered $150 Million, which Davis turned down and which Baltimore has since withdrawn. If the Sox could get him for $175 Million, for 7 years, which would represent his age 30, through 36 years, it seems "reasonable" in today's market. The organization has no prospect who could realistically be projected to fill the need for a big, left handed power bat. If the Sox want to compete with the Cubs, for fan support, that is the sort of move that JR will have to make. The final year of La Roche's deal, is relatively of little significance, when contemplating that kind of financial commitment. Who cares what they do with him. Release him, if they have to. That number of years and dollars for Davis after what they gave Abreu (roughly 40%) will just never happen with JR as owner...you pay that kind of money for a franchise catcher, SS, 3B or outfielder who can hit and defend. Davis is not close to the modern day equivalent of Albert Belle as a hitter.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:11 AM) Hopeless again. Until JR sees his GM needs a varsity letter in HS baseball, this team is screwed. Perez wouldn't bat 5th for the White Sox. You're right. He would hit third. Eaton, Cabrera, Perez, Abreu, Gordon, Lawrie, Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez. Based on 2011-2014, that would be the most logical line-up. It's exactly the kind of team we would need to win with defensively...and pitching-wise.

What reason do we really have to believe that Hahn is even an average judge or evaluator of baseball talent? He's missed badly on Avi, Duke, Davidson, LaRoche, Keppinger, Bonifacio, Beckham (second time), Paulino, Cabrera, Downs and Belisario. Soto, Montas (who many now want to trade), Eaton...those have worked out well, and then Abreu, who was pushed mostly by KW and Paddy. Robertson...jury is far from out on whether overpaying a veteran closer for three consecutive non-playoff appearances will be worth it when they could have punted him back to NY last year. Oh, and finally the Samardzija debacle...and completely misreading the team and trade market in June/July last year.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 07:57 AM) If Johnson comes through for the team in 2016 the White Sox can have one of the best rotations in MLB. Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Johnson is a very good rotation to have. If Fulmer does well the first part of 2016 in the Minor Leagues he might become the 5th starter by the All Star break. Why waste this type of pitching? As Bill Veeck once said "The future is Now". Acquire at least one more big bat through free agency (Upton) and hopefully the team will score enough runs to get the team into the 2016 Playoffs. If Hahn is expecting La Roche to bat cleanup for the team and be productive it's going to be another long season the South Side of Chicago. Hahn has added 2 catchers and a third baseman. He has upgraded those 2 positions. The team should be better offensively with those 3 players. The team needs one more big bat. Lets do it this offseason. Lawrie and Avila haven't been able to stay healthy. Upton alone doesn't make us a playoff team without at least one more dangerous hitter in that lineup. KC had Perez and Gordon hitting 7th and 8th against lefties down the stretch. Those guys would be hitting 3/5 for the White Sox with Abreu in the cleanup spot. Just not enough balance or contact....no threats on the basepaths/terrible baserunning and an improved defensive team but still bottom third in the majors. Will believe in Erik Johnson when the team puts 100% faith in him as well.

With the team as currently constituted projected in the 75-80 win territory...is there anyone who disagrees? 1) AL Central a tad weaker with Gordon, Zobrist, Price and Cespedes gone and only Zimmermann added. 2) Cabrera, Eaton and LaRoche can't start that poorly again...theoretically. 3) Sale, Rodon and EJ have room to improve. Otoh, we had nearly 100% health last season. A major injury to Cabrera, Eaton, Lawrie, Abreu, Q, Sale, Rodon or Robertson would put the team behind the 8 ball. Other than DH and 2b, we're seriously lacking in depth. Going to Beck or Turner in April would probably end up with disastrous results. They have to add another OF bat like Upton, shake things up with a trade or gamble on Desmond. Sitting on all those picks isn't going to help until it's too late because we are probably stuck in that 12-18 range over the next two seasons in the first round and Hahn will be out of a job by the time they make any appreciable impact. With the lack of free agent hitters next offseason, can they really afford to punt two more seasons away and be in an even worse position financially to make the necessary changes before 2018?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 01:32 AM) White Sox were 14th in team ERA. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/league/al 7th out of 15th in the AL without adjusting for the league's worst defense and USCF. I'm pretty sure the WAR pitching stats are even better....top 3-5. #1 in quality starts in the AL as well.

We're going to more than double the biggest contract in Sox history for yet another attempt at fixing the LH power problem? Not seeing it. Davis is essentially three times more expensive than Nelson Cruz, and he's not the type of player who will increase attendance by name alone, either. Finally, there's the fact JR isn't willing to tack another $13 million on top of that to dump LaRoche. Buying players at that age coming off contract drive seasons for six to eight year deals just isn't the Sox way...not even for Sox heroes or homegrown players. They want to roll the dice, it's going to have to be Puig, Cespedes, Gordon or Upton.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck...1211-story.html Questions why Heyward is worth so much with such pedestrian offensive numbers...and the impact on a potential Chris Davis contract in Balt. Calls the deal mind boggling when many pundits think it's Epsteinian genius.

Kendricks, Hammel, Haren and Wada were fairly pedestrian....it was just that Arrieta was that excellent, along with solid contributions from Lester. So pretty much like the White Sox, top heavy because of Sale and Q but not especially balanced. Rodon's second half really helped maintain the numbers as well as Shark tanked.

Let's take the opposite approach. Anderson's ROY in 2017, Fulmer's rookie pitcher of the year in 2016 and Rodon's in the Top Five for Cy Young balloting next year as well. Montas is the equivalent of Herrera/healthy Joel Zumaya. You still need some breaks. The overuse of the cutter not to wear down Robertson's effectiveness by 2018. You will need to replace Cabrera and Lawrie and the only long-term projections you can make are with Anderson, Eaton and Abreu. With no catcher in sight, you're still looking at that position, 3b (Trey M.), two of the outfield positions (unless Hawkins miraculously figures things out...and also where Upton would come in handy as he would still be 29 in 2018), DH and possibly 2b depending on what happens with Sanchez and Micah Johnson. With no Upton and Hawkins...it's hard to imagine where the power is going to come from. Trading Adams? Maybe an international signing from Asia or more likely Cuba? Logically, they would fill in those spots with cheap but elite defenders like Rondon and maybe Engel but it's going to continue to be a struggle offensively. It's just so hard with all the position player flops to imagine Anderson as an All-Star and also count on 3-4 more positions to be handled via internal options. We know that from Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez, Trey and Micah we'll be fortunate to have one starter among them in 2018. Trading Sale or Quintana seems to be the only solution to getting a more balanced offense since they're not going to continue to try to spend their way to one like last offseason.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 05:41 PM) Everything that Balta and Blacksox said 100%. I don't mean to make this personal but what's wrong with you guys who want Montas in the BP this year. This year doesn't mean a damn thing. If we are going to give some of these young guys a chance then let's really give them a chance to be what they can be. The Sox don''t need instant value or gratification for Montas they need him to be a starter. A lot of you seem to believe in Fulmer and Adams why not Montas ? Is it because you actually know more about Montas and because of that the shine has worn off ? Fulmer and Adams have a long way to go before they reach Montas' level. The Sox look they they are trying to build an elite starting pitching staff controllable for years so they can compete for years. Maybe in 2/3 years that staff will be Sale, Q, Rodon, Montas, Eric Johnson, Carson Fulmer and Spencer Adams . That's 7 guys ,4 of which are unknown qualities atm. There's a decent chance half of those 4 fail as starters . When that happens then great, try them in the pen. None of the 4 are no where near failure as starters yet. Montas has at least a good 2 years to try to succeed as a starter and he has progressed rapidly in he minors. Why shouldn't he have the chance to keep developing ? It may slow down some as the competition becomes stronger but that's the natural progression of pitching. This may come as a shock to some of you but winning might have to wait a few years . Maybe, just maybe ,the Sox think in that 2 years they can get the offense and defense to a place where it can to a blessing to the pitching instead of a curse. If you can rely on any of Sale/Q/Rodon/Abreu/Eaton not getting hurt, sure. Heck, a year ago we would have seen more Danish and Hawkins talk, along with Avi and Micah as well. Heck, Webb was going to be the closer of the future, too. The fact of the matter is that with all the uncertainty surrounding Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez and EJ, they almost have to hit with two out of three from Anderson, Fulmer and Adams. Anything less than that success rate before 2018 and the balance of the scale is tipping towards rebuilding again...as much as that will hurt in the middle of their media/broadcasting rights early negotiating window. If they do pass on Gordon, Cespedes and Upton in favor of fiscal responsibility after wasting so much the last 2-3 seasons...then there's no choice but trading Sale or Quintana and hoping for a return like Cliff Lee, Phillips and Sizemore....the Teix to ATL deal or even Escobar/Cain for Greinke. It's just doubtful our divided front office can pull it off because by the time they have reached consensus, another team will already have exploited our hesitation and used it to their advantage. Right now, they seem more concerned with leveraging some profit out of a sunk cost in LaRoche than competing in Year Two.

Look at it the other way, I guess... How important is this friend? Let's say your male friend knew your wife was cheating on you...would you not want him to tell you? Should men be more loyal to "protect" other men or is it simply the fact you're closest or closer to the man? Then ask yourself if you would still keep it a secret if the married woman/wife was 25-30, looked like a Victoria's Secret model but the Kansan next door version AND she was likely to be driven into your arms if she knew he'd cheated a second time and was likely to decide to throw in the towel on her relationship? It's easier to defend the man (the whole she's getting older, her body changed after kids....no longer passion or chemistry in marriage excuse) but if the shoe was on the other foot and she was cheating on you with a younger, richer, more attractive man....why does society have the perception that's even worse somehow?

What would Tim Tebow do? Would Jesus also follow the "bros before hoes" line of thinking? What about the pastor or minister...if he had firsthand knowledge of a repetitive pattern, would anyone objective and outside of the relationship really accept the sexual addiction copout/excuse? Even if you were closer friends with his wife than the guy? I always feel like telling someone it's going on again is much easier than "ruining" the trust in the first place...then it's on her 100% to live with the consequences of staying despite the Near certainty he we will cheat repetitively in the future. This idea that guys can cheat because the girl's super hot and younger and that justifies it more somehow is pretty dubious. Certainly not admirable.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 08:58 AM) i totally agree with creed, i am not a stallone fan, but it provided the next step in life and the new group coming in. if they do a 2 nd movie, i would be interested on the story line. Mr. T/Clubber Lang, Ivan Drago/Dolph Lundgren and Ronda Rousey.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) Not sure. They are rumored to want position players. The problem is the Sox just don't have much in the system to deal. Sox have a few guys at the top that are too much to deal for a guy like Frazier. I think the 15-30 range players in Sox system are similar to most teams. The problem is the back half of the top 10. Most teams trade from that inventory and the Sox just don't have those guys yet. Unless Cincy took something headlined by Avi, Micah, Montas, a trade probably can't happen. They'd have to include Trey M. as well.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) Quentin's 2008 year was worth 4.7 WAR (granted he missed the last month). Heyward has equaled or surpassed that number in four years (2010, 2012, 2014 and 2015). Konerko's highest WAR season was 3.8, and he only had three seasons of 3-plus WAR. WAR would also say Heyward or Alex Gordon are far superior to Konerko, Abreu and post-1997 Frank Thomas. Would the White Sox have a better chance next year with Abreu gone, Heyward or Gordon in the outfield, LaRoche at 1b and Cabrera/Avi as the DH? Not seeing it... Both of those guys are closer to complementary pieces than superstars.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 09:01 AM) And that's not their fault right now. In order for someone to get Sale, they have to rip up their team and farm. Quintana has a ton of value also. Teams gota give up so much. Our best shot was with Arizona and the Braves got it done with Shelby Miller. You can't just trade these guys to trade them or you'll f*** up and not get the right return. We've also gotten the likes of Nestor Molina and Matt Davidson back for our expendable pitchers. Peavy and Santiago were the two deals that were more successful...although Avi has failed, there are still Montas, Lawrie and Rondon representing that fortuitous move. Granted, we should have fought for Iglesias instead...the outfield need was more apparent at that moment.

All they have to do is stick Parra in RF and get someone to take Hammel's contract...Zobrist can play RF but apparently they are committed to him mostly at 2b. If they don't trade Baez, he could end up in RF as well.

The odds of the White Sox giving Machado $225 million...not nearly as high as when they came in second on A-Rod back in the day.

Creed was pretty darned good...albeit the sequence of boxing-related events about as likely in real life as Draft Day. And as lost as Mr. Jordan was in Fantastic Four, this was a far meatier role....he had the same director to work with as Fruitvale Station, too.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 12, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) I would put it more like this: he is a great player being paid like one. Over the past four years, he is 7th overall in WAR among position players. He may not be an elite offensive player, but he is that defensively. This is just a great signing for the Cubs. If the Sox signed him, he'd instantly be the best player on the team, and probably the team's best overall player since Magglio. As a Sox fan, welcome to hell for the next decade. 2008 Carlos Quentin says hello...yet another player whose career with the Sox didn't quite end up fulfilling its early promise. You could probably get quite an argument from Konerko fans on the Magglio point as well.