caulfield12

I'm not sure that we "flipped" cores. We were able to add Abreu, Eaton, Robertson and Rodon on top of Sale and Quintana. Now you have Frazier and possibly Lawrie, although it's hard to say "core" when you only have control of a player for 2 years. One of the expected or forecasted core members, Avisail, is unlikely to make it. Conor, Alexei and Flowers were cast away, along with DeAza, Viciedo and Beckham prior to that. (The main positive this off-season is the F.O. essentially admitting the lack of quality and at least attempting to not go with the same approach year after year after year, whether in terms of coaching staff/s or personnel changes.) I guess if you look at it from a three year perspective (the 2012 team in September as the starting point), you can make that argument, and add Tim Anderson, Fulmer and perhaps Adams to the list as well. But it's still one impact player short, in all likelihood. In the end, it just depends on your perspective as a fan. If the changes stopped right here, then some fans (such as yourself) will be more or less content and argue they did the best they could under the circumstances. Not unlike the arguments we were given for standing pat at the deadline last year and not making any moves to add, either. Those seem rather hollow in hindsight. Others are going to expect more. Neither side is inherently right or wrong.

Obviously the idea of line-up balance 1-9, high contact (not three outcome hitters) hitters who can foul off lots of pitches (adding to pitch counts, frustrated starting pitchers) and then the right personnel late in games to steal bases at will without having to give up outs via sacrifices. That team will much more consistently score 3-5 runs per game than the 2000-2004 White Sox offense/s. And that's how you win without having quality (and deep) starting pitching OR a great offense. Speed, defense, bullpen, fundamentals, etc. That 2005 White Sox team, like the Twins from 2001-2010 or KC more recently...they absolutely, 100% believed they were destined to win any tie game in the late innings, and especially games where they got a 1-2 run lead past the sixth inning. Another important note about 2005 is that with Pods and Iguchi at the top of the line-up, in the first 3-4 months of the season (before the injury), they did have the capability of manufacturing runs quite effectively. White Sox line-ups since 2008 have had "balance" (albeit not high quality) and certainly you'd say the only way they could manufacture runs would be giving up outs rather than having basestealers who could sweep bags at will and give their teams additional ways of generating a run from 3rd and less than 2 outs.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 20, 2015 -> 09:47 PM) Of course I know as do we all who owns the team, that's not the issue (although it is clear from both KW and RH's own mouth as well as the Showtime series from back in 2010 that JR is a very hands-on owner. NO MAJOR decisions aren't made without his approval) That's not the question though is it, who runs the day to day decisions, who makes the calls before submitting them to JR for his final yes or no is the question I submit and the evidence just in print is clear based on their own comments from KW and RH that there is plenty of room for doubt by many fans. I don't find that rooting for or against any individual or from how things have been done. Nor does that suggest I'm for a "go for it (yet again)" approach or a complete rebuild, I've already stated I don't care...yet again, pick a plan and stay with it is all I'm saying. The Sox HAVE NOT been a very successful franchise over the past 35 years, the number of playoff appearances bear that out. That's not even open for discussion. The question is why not given their resources and advantages over the other teams in the division. Could a unwieldy front office be part of the reason? Maybe, hard to say without actually being in the room. But that doesn't negate the legitimacy of the question does it friends and neighbors. I'll be interested to hear what the "excuses" are come this June if the Sox stumble badly out of the gate again and perhaps Ventura is fired, and then we'll get an update on the "three year plan / window." Mark 1) Injuries 2) Tough early schedule against AL Central, etc. 3) Took time for the coaching staff to gel together 4) The White Sox don't have enough quality depth to provide "surer" options than Saladino, Erik Johnson, Lawrie, Avi Garcia, etc., and like most teams we can't develop OR afford one of the best catchers in the game 5) Bad weather in April/May...offense can't get into a rhythm 6) Lack of fan support/fans waiting to see if the team's for real first before coming out 7) Lack of chemistry because of all the chances in the INF (Frazier/Saladino/Lawrie) 8) Should have cut bait with Danks and LaRoche but couldn't afford to due to payroll limitations

Yeah, that's the only trade that makes sense, something like Avi for Segura, where there wouldn't be a huge difference in salaries...and if we're now mildly or somewhat concerned with under $5 million deals, we shouldn't have wasted so much money the last 3 seasons on Beckham, Konerko, Downs, Paulino, Belisario, Keppinger, Bonifacio and even Duke. That money all adds up over time and does become significant in terms of opportunity costs and forgone opportunities.

It's one of those, have to take the organization's word for it things. You're right, those evaluations are much more difficult to make at the minor league level due to field conditions and even more variance with scoring decisions and the tracking methods for defensive ratings systems are just evolving for the minors at this point. It is a bit curious that Saladino didn't receive MORE playing time the final two months of 2015 at that position so we would have a much better idea going into 2016. That was a missed opportunity that probably has more to do with "respect for Alexei and his future free agency" than what was best for the team moving forward. I guess we can give the benefit of the doubt, but they SHOULD have known what they were planning to do with Ramirez by the time of the trade deadline. They could have at least split time or maybe even played Alexei in the OF or at 2B or even 3B to demonstrate his positional versatility. Playing him at 2B wouldn't have mattered, as they clearly weren't 100% confident in Carlos Sanchez moving forward as a full-time player in an "all-in" year.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Dec 20, 2015 -> 07:05 PM) Id imagine it has something to do with the fact that Japan attacked us on our own soil and the other 2 countries didnt. But we haven't enacted a similar policy towards militia groups on native soil, especially in the heart of the 1990's when you had a series of events including Ruby Ridge, Timothy McVeigh/OKC bombing and the Branch Davidian/David Koresh stand-off in WACO. Most of these "attacks" have involved white males in terms of mass shootings, militia groups or religious sects...and probably the second highest demographic representation after white males would be Asian males, and they're hardly subject to any extra scrutiny, either. I agree another massive event (somewhere between 9/11 and Paris) will tip the balance all around the world...but, at this point, we're at a time where enacting such a policy would only increase the number of attacks and terrorist recruiting around the world. The most difficult question is how much is the US responsible for terrorist attacks against our allies when they're simply much more convenient targets in terms of geographic proximity and looser border controls (Schengen Agreement)...? Clinton tried to make that argument against Trump already, that he's making the world MORE dangerous, not less, by pandering to the base during primary season when 90% of his proposals are completely unrealistic or downright unconstitutional.

Hateful Eight did feel about 30 minutes too long. The Revenant is in the same territory, 2:30-2:45 in length. I guess the economics argument is more return for your ticket investment, haha...on the other hand, the opportunity cost of something else you could have done with your life for another 30-45 minutes has to be worth something as well. CLUE is a good description, like an old fashioned murder mystery. Fwiw, the presence of Channing Tatum and his strange accent in that film was a bit jarring. Maybe it's because Tarantino used a lot of his favorites like Jackson, Russell, Madsen and Roth, but that casting just didn't seem to fit very well. It's almost like Channing Tatum always wanted to be in a Tarantino movie, so they sort of shoehorned him into the story when he had a break in his schedule.

Yeah....I just watched the first hour and forty-five minutes last night. Beautiful cinematography but more of a "B" or 3/4 star film...good/solid but not great by any stretch unless you particularly enjoy outdoor survivalist-themed stories.

And the good will created by Jordan and Pippen almost twenty years ago now is helping to sell how many White Sox 2016 Holiday Season Ticket packs?

4.25/5 The Room, haven't seen Spotlight yet, but one of the five best films of the year for sure 4/5 The Hateful Eight, not as good as Django Unchained, but very close...takes a lot longer to build to the action but then it packs a real wallop 3.75/5 Carol

Let's just see where Segura and Saladino are at OPS-wise on July 31st.

Why didn't we put all the German-Americans and Italian-Americans into internment camps during World War Two? We did it to the Japanese...and Trump wants to exclude Muslims now. But why were the Germans and Italians assumed to be more patriotic? Were the Romans simply being more patriotic when they crucified all those terroristic, insurrectionist Christians in the Coliseum and fed them to the lions? They were enemies of the emperor and were making it more difficult to govern the far-flung provinces....

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 20, 2015 -> 12:19 AM) Next season is probably a wash in ST sales though, right? They'll get a slight attendance bump if they are good and then hope to pick up some in 2017 and 2018. All we really know is that they gained 1,500 per game coming into this season but were likely to be down something like 3000 from that point just based on how disappointing the season was...especially for the fans who optimistically jumped back on board after 2013 and 2014 or who left after Dunn in 2011. It's going to take one last big name to be close to a wash. I guess if we see articles in the next week or so reporting renewed optimism due to Frazier...that will be a clue. Whether it's true or not, who knows.

Thought he was related to the Cardinals' announcing family of Bucks until reading further...

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 08:11 PM) Amen brother. I think any of the opinions that the Sox are "stuck in the middle" or "won't contend for a few years" or "need to suck it up and do a full rebuild" are beyond stupid. Way beyond. Like here's stupid, now drive 100 miles farther down stupidville road, go past Sale's mansion & Abreu's complex, take a right on Eaton road and past the better than average catcher's quarters, beyond the nice bullpens on the hill, stop and take in the sights at the stables full of young thoroughbreds and go jump in a hole. We don't need you. ? How many season ticket holders who were at best on the fence a month ago about renewing are now back in the fold? That's the key question.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 07:01 PM) Just to put it in perspective, he is a year older than Avi Garcia, and hasn't been able to hit major league pitching since Avi became a White Sox. If you don't think Avi can ever figure it out, or think Avi in RF in 2016 will be a team killer, you are being hypocritical if you think Segura is an answer. The guy has been a replacement level player except for the first half of 2013. Either teams adjusted and he couldn't, or he lost it. So now posters are hypocrites when they disagree with you? If Avi Garcia could also play defense in RF like Segura is capable of at the most important position on the field, then it might be a relevant comparison. Last time I checked, Avi has never come close to a 4 war season and isn't capable of averaging 30 stolen bases per year either without being thrown out 15-25 times in the process of compiling those numbers. What in Juan Uribe's Colorado numbers led you to believe he would be a key cog in their World Series team at the time of that trade? He lost it...yeah...no excuses at all when you lose a child, just shrug it off and throw some dirt on it. We used the same excuse for Sox players like Dunn and Ramirez and Contreras when they had family or off-the-field issues, why doesn't it extend to players on other teams to at least consider other issues? At one point, he was the key player coming back in a Zack Greinke deal, after all. There's still talent there.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 06:06 PM) Plus it isn't really an obvious upgrade over Saladino, some people just like other teams' garbage for some reason. Obviously you believe Saladino can put up a 4ish war at age 22/23. Segura is only 25, and plays at the very least above-average defense. I guess it depends on how much you want to believe the last two seasons (where 2015 he was clearly affected by the death of his son) are more indicative of his overall ability. If you throw out that season, you'd expect around a 2 war. Of course, he has been double that and half that but terribly inconsistent so hard to predict. Perfect change of scenery candidate. Juan Uribe was "garbage" to the Rockies before they dumped him for Aaron Miles, let's not forget. Both Segura and Uribe were Rookie of the Year type players whose careers nosedived for different reasons. He has also averaged about 30 stolen bases per season. Is that 2 WAR a reasonable expectation for Saladino...or is closer to 0.5-1 more likely? At the very least, he would be perfect insurance for both middle infield positions and allow Carlos Sanchez at his young age to continue to develop his hitting ability and power at Charlotte. Guess it depends on his salary, though...and trade cost. Otherwise we're left with Ian Desmond as the fallback to an outfielder, and losing a draft pick to boot.

If they're all in competing this year and the cost to acquire wasn't so great...he would provide more upside than Saladino. He also fits the current two year window or cycle idea...with Melky, Lawrie and Frazier.

Daisy Ridley loks like a mix of Kiera Knightley and Jorja Fox from CSI Las Vegas.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) Don't be surprise if another trade is in the works for White Sox. https://twitter.com/SSS_joshnelson/status/677207504695242752 Jean Segura is an interesting idea....from the comments. Josh Nelson also questioning whether Sox can play at big boys' table in terms of Cespedes, et al.

It's certainly easy to look at Hahn's track record in trades and acquisitions and find enough fault. That writer is acting like Hahn's brilliance is being stifled by KW...while clearly the best move of the past three years (besides the Peavy trade and Eaton) has been attributed mostly to KW and Paddy lobbying JR for the additional funds to sign Abreu. The "moves looked good on paper" argument isn't going to continue to work again as a defense of his tenure...especially if they do end up signing that Big 3 guy and he's a bust compared to the other two. Otoh, if we don't add that player now, it's going to be even less likely to happen next year in terms of the FA class. As much as Dunn/Danks spelled the end of KW, this theoretical big signing would pretty much define Hahn's eventual success or failure from a historical standpoint. (Of course, a lesser signing takes the pressure off and the story's all about the White Sox "small market" mentality like we earn the same $20-30 million from local media as teams like Twins, Indians and Royals.)

And Morales as well...the timing issue of missing ST and two months led to an abysmal season with both the Twins and Mariners.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 12:55 PM) No, it wasn't. Hahn called in to the score yesterday morning and spent a frustrated portion of that time saying that he is sick of talking about inter office dynamics and would rather be talking about Frazier. KW undermining Hahns authority to the media doesn't make Hahn move faster. He was referring to who gets the blame or the credit when things go poorly, the scapegoat tendency of the media to assess or apportion blame when things go sour and fans are rightfully frustrated. Obviously, with the Cubs, they told everyone they weren't competing and the expectation was playoffs in 2016 at the earliest. With the White Sox, you've had two high profile complete bust seasons (2011 and 2014) when big things were predicted by everyone. KW would still be the GM and/or nobody would care about the Hahn/KW dynamic had they made it to the playoffs both those years...or maybe even just once, as that's more the average for JR-owned teams.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 10:43 AM) Yea, theo doesn't make Hoyer look bad like KW has with Rick Wasn't it effective? Maybe that was KW's unique way of saying ____ or get off the pot. Now Hahn has put the ball 100% back in JR and KW's hands in terms of okaying another big signing. There's little more he could have done without trading Robertson, Q, Fulmer or Anderson. He's done his job. Now it's about payrolls, performance and the coaching staff doing its job in the spring to come out of the gates chomping at the bit.

Are we talking about Luhnow undermining Mozeliak or the group that was involved in the database hacking scandal more recently? Because Luhnow also took 2-3 other guys with him to Houston. There were actually three factions, and Jocketty got pushed out and LaRussa/Duncan left as well.