GREEDY

We shouldn't have given Leury 3.5 million if he can't be counted on to play (as early as May 1). I understand if it is July and he is still scuffling but it is early May. Sample size only applies to some players round here. If it is about his defense... The same dudes that think Vaughn is fine in LF will have a problem with Leury in CF. I can't think of 5 teams that have more than 1 legitimate defensive option in CF.

Our twitter fanbase is definitely beating their ugly wives right this minute

1000%. Got a finger burn from a Corona. We've all been there. Wonder if we qualify for 27th player under Corona protocol?

Or late in the lineup so he sees the starter only twice. Relievers throw fastballs more often.

Seems like you have spotted a very high ceiling. Sample size only applies when the "haters" are involved.

I didn't start that. And I'm done with this. No problem with Nick, people are trying to make this about his personal worth? C'mon. No hate towards Nick personally. Strictly befuddlement that many here have said that .350 obp, zero power and "slightly above average defense" makes him a fine player, because it does not. If he isn't the best defender in the league that won't work. If he doesn't lead the league in OBP by a significant margin, that won't work. If he doesn't find a way to hit for some power, that won't work. Nothing has changed since he was drafted and we had the same arguments. You guys are still wrong.

Would you rather face 9 Madrigal sized Madrigals or one Abreu sized Madrigal?

You said he'd be on base 16-19 times per game. That is incorrect. And it isn't close.

I think your estimates are severely off unless you are using personal projections that making Nick the greatest on base player in the history of the game.

I reacted to your judging. Small sample size only applies to the haters here. In his greatest strength. Now do literally every other aspect of the game. Amazing.

A 64 win catcher? Bill Shoemaker was also the same height, and a bonafide legend. Book it. Stats need not apply if it is a player we like. 12th out of 25 qualified second basemen in "turning over the lineup and getting on base".

This is completely wrong. I didn't cherry pick anything. You in-turn are. If you compare their first 150 plate appearances they are very, very similar (WAR). And Nick has DEFINITELY not been "better" as you stated. If you are taking their first 600 plate appearances and comparing that to what Nick is on pace for, they are significantly, and I mean significantly "better". --- And I feel like I need this disclaimer every so often: No one doubts that Nick is going to hit above .300, be fun to watch and root for. The concern is that the average fan that defends him online seems to say things like "If he hits over .300 and plays solid defense, he will be fine". And some people that are now known as "haters" just would like to let the mouth breathers know that this is not "fine" and will likely translate to being way below average for an everyday second basemen.

Definitely.

By what measure? Pedroia had a similar first season to what Nick had last year and then in his first full year had 3.7 WAR. Altuve had double the plate appearances in his first season but in his first full season he was worth 1.9 WAR. Nick isn't on pace to do either and certainly isn't on pace to be "better" than that.

Jake Lamb has retired himself

MLB should have two day games everyday. Would go a long way in increasing international interest. In-Game wagering will help as well. Whatever owners give up in local gate, should be eclipsed 10 fold. But I'd definitely start the first one at 11:00 est. 9:00 is just too early. Half of our fanbase is still hungover.

No way. Love the kid. Pull for him big time. But his story thus far is the farthest thing from a disney feel good movie. I will say the only time I've ever "had beef" was when he was called up late in the year when his velo was clearly down. Why did this happen? I've always wondered if his camp pushed for it so they could get his clock started. Obviously, pure speculation there and I think he has 100% gotten a pass from the org and fanbase on that unfortunate timing.

It's a hollywood script but it's definitely not like yermin's. Drafted > Popped for PEDs > Breaks hand punching teammate > Gets traded > Dates Reality TV Star > Says his elbow hurts after call-up > TJ > Public Breakup > Dates Disney Star > Public Breakup > Sits out season > Attends in-person playoff game > Starts season as a dominate reliever despite dip in velo I mean what is the awesome narrative? Despite making questionable decisions his entire adult life, Kopech has managed to be a very effective pitcher for over 10 innings?

Should you challenge flow chart >>>>> Is it the 6th inning? >>>>> Yes you should challenge

MLB and definitely Benetti needs to give the covid protocol thing a rest. There are people lined up butts to nuts for hot dogs in the stadium. The benches can clear.

Ok, I'll take the bait. What stat line do you think Madrigal can achieve that would constitute fulfillment of said ceiling?

I think it is all context. Fans went into the offseason hoping for 2 big starting pitcher additions. They got one. I'm not sure anyone here wouldn't have wanted to give Los another chance. I think they just preferred giving it to him as the #6 starter, or in a competition with Cease for the #5 spot. When fans aren't privy to the budget, the sky is the limit, and even those that were most bullish on Rodon would have preferred other options.

I don't think even the most concerned fans have ever entertained the fact that he wasn't going to be the starting 2B for the foreseeable future, possibly even the entire window, if even if there was little to no improvement. I think the "hate" is one part fans trying to argue advanced metrics vs traditional stats and the other is people "I told you so'ing" the front office for using such a high pick on a player with Nick's ceiling. Outside of not making any obvious errors, Nick has been the same Nick from the other thread this past week. Yet the victory laps have already begun?

All it takes is one dose of: "You can sign good players but rarely do great players hit free agency in their prime" and you end up in crazy mode. Next thing you know you are scouting the local high school triple jump and reading the national inquirer article about a Middle Eastern little leaguer with 3 arms.

The only remotely comparable player/pick on the list is Colon (who I think was only a college freshman) who was indeed a failure.