Chicago White Sox

Reading through a Red Sox message board, I’m actually surprised at how many posters would deal JBJ for Abreu. They really think they have a two year window and many of them are committed to doing everything they can maximize that opportunity. Such a plan could include trading JBJ for Abreu, moving Benintendi to CF, and signing a replacement OF in free agency. DD is definitely going to do something drastic now that the Yankees added Stanton. Maybe there’s more of a match here then some of us think.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 10:17 AM) Can't see the Red Sox dealing Benintendi. Oh definitely not, just thought it was a wild trade proposal with the Sox trading their three biggest trade chips in one fair swoop. God bless Phil Rogers, dude has been coming up with some of the dumbest trade ideas for a good 20 years now and continues to get paid to do so.

From a Phil Rogers Winter Meetings preview: https://amp.mlb.com/263178696-al-powers-pon...impression=true

Ok, who says no: Sox trade Carlos Rodon for Clint Frazier & Justus Sheffield

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) Aren't the Red Sox more desperate for a bat, such as Abreu's, now that their chief rival has acquired Stanton? Most definitely, but we don’t match up well with them IMO. Groome & Chavis are their top two prospects and I’m not a huge fan of either, at least not as the centerpieces of an Abreu trade. For me to move Abreu I need to be blown away and that means getting JBJ & Chavis. That would be an overpay for the Red Sox, but maybe they figure they can move Benintendi to CF and sign JD Martinez for a corner spot and come out ahead overall. Dombrowski will have to do something though, cause the Yankees have improved and still have the ammo to get even better.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:06 PM) Hateful/inciteful/provocative...how do you plan on objectively quantifying that as being worse? Worse than the anti-Muslim videos shared on twitter two weeks ago? Isn’t more to be expected from the President of the United States than a random yahoo message board poster? What do you want to be covered that isn’t being covered? Wouldn’t the news media simply be considered more divisive for doing so? Listen to C-Span someday. They take alternating calls from Democrats, Republicans and Independents on Washington Journal. A good number of the conservative callers are currently labeling c-span as fake news and arguing they’re only focused on bad news about the administration, and calling it fake news as well. So where does real news exist anymore? What in the hell...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 08:22 PM) I know, why on Earth would Jon Lester accept a deal from a team that had averaged 92.5 losses the previous 2 years. Because he had a pre-existing relationship with the front office and for some reason got caught up in the Cubs’ “magic” like numerous free agents in the past?

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 07:32 AM) Cordell played half a season at Colorado Springs. That will help his stats. I wish I knew what Sox have or don't have in Cordell. Can he play Center? If so, he has to be an upgrade over our guy Engel. Is he better than Leury? I sure don't know. I’m hoping one of two things happen with Cordell. The ideal outcome would be he shows he can play a decent CF where his bat plays up and turns him into a solid regular. The fallback scenario is he proves capable of playing all four corner positions and becomes a quality bench piece. Right now I think Luery deserves the CF job to start next season, but I’d have Cordell right behind him on the depth chart. I also think Cordell is a far more interesting prospect than Engel (or Tilson for that matter).

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 01:12 AM) Frazier may be a bit younger, but in a similar amount of AAA PAs last year, Cordell put up a .855 OPS to Frazier's .817. I think prospect hype may bee driving your opinion in this case. What exactly is prospect hype? The fact that Clint Frazier has been a universal top 50 prospect while Cordell has never been able to crack a top 100 list? I loved picking up Cordell for Swarzak, but that doesn’t change the fact that Frazier is hands down the superior prospect. Frazier simply has louder tools, including plus raw power & elite bat speed. He’s also demonstrated better plate discipline in the upper minors. Now ignoring all that, even if we were to judge prospects based solely on one partial AAA season, you fail to acknowledge that Cordell played in the PCL and his home park was in Colorado Springs. Despite that OPS difference, Frazier still had a higher wRC+ (even without park adjustments) all while being nearly 2 1/2 years younger (which is more than just a “bit”). Maybe you can use these stats to argue Cordell is underrated, but he’s certaintly not similar caliber of prospect when you consider all relevant information.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:00 PM) I think you are overvaluing Frazier and/or undervaluing Sanchez. Frazier certainly has value but his stock is down a fair amount from last winter. After a hot start, he didn't play well in the bigs last year (negative WAR). With Sanchez, he has proven to be one of the premier defensive infielders in baseball and plays plus plus defense at 2b, SS, and 3b. If he continues to improve offensively he's a legit 3 WAR guy over a full season. I'd still make the trade if I'm the Sox because Frazier fits into the rebuild timeframe better and I think the Sox could afford to lose Fulmer but it's close IMO. First off, I’m not going to overreact to a player struggling in their first major league stint. Most prospects don’t get called up and go Aaron Judge from the get go. I still believe in Frazier’s tools and think he’ll be a solid starting OF at the very minimum. If it all clicks, the kid has star potential. As for Sanchez, I really do like the kid, but I don’t think he has that much untapped offensive upside left. I think he’s close to the player he’s going to become, which is a versatile, strong defender who is a near league average hitter. That’s a 2.5ish WAR player IMO and that’s great, but if I can turn that kind of player into a very talented major league ready prospect with star potential I’m most definitely doing it. Fulmer makes a potential trade a little more difficult, but I no longer see him as a starter and would ultimately be fine including him in a deal. I just don’t see the Yankees doing this type of trade however.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:54 PM) I wonder when the national media is gonna realize that the Sox only have like 13 cents in payroll with arguably baseballs best young class. I did read one article a month or so back that projected us to be one of the biggest players in next year’s free agent class, but otherwise these writers tend to forget about us it seems.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:04 PM) I'll just add, I think a lot of people forget Sanchez is only 25 since he's been around the big league club since 2014. Most hitters peak in their late 20s and he made great strides last year. I understand he doesn't have the prospect hype surrounding him like Frazier, but at worst he's an above average utility infielder. At best he's an above average starter. He has a lower ceiling than a guy like Frazier but also a higher floor imo. I don’t disagree with anything you say here, but I’d trade Sanchez & Fulmer any day of the week for Frazier. At this stage of the rebuild I’m looking for ceiling and Frazier has star potential if it all clicks.

QUOTE (pktmotion @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 10:28 PM) Wonder what key piece puts it over the edge for each team? Boston = Devers St. Louis = Reyes For Boston I need Bradley & Chavis (not happening). For St. Louis I need Kelly & Flaherty (not happening).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 10:36 PM) After they've both had injury riddled years? Yeah I'm comparing them. Is that upgrade worth 2 decent players? If Cordell, Sanchez, and Fulmer each turn out to be 2 WAR players, to balance that, Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player in 2020. That's the comparison. God I hate this sort of deal but I get it. We're trading 2 possibly decent players and giving up on a 3rd for this upgrade. This upgrade HAS to be worth it. Convince me that the injuries are nothing. Convince me that the Yankees just made a $50 million/2 year mistake. This is a rough case. I’m honestly for a loss of words. If we could get Frazier for Sanchez & Fulmer the deal would already be done. Cordell has zero impact on that. And WTF is this Frazier has to be a 6 WAR player nonsense? If Frazier is a 4 WAR player it’s a tremendous trade for us. If he’s a 3 WAR player it’s a still a win. And I have no idea was this $50M/2 year mistake is all about.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 09:20 PM) If Garcia was moved, I'd probably consider this, but gosh I want to see Cordell first. If scouts were ok moving Swarzak for him they thought there was value there. Man, maybe they say "F*** you Cordell was your mistake fix this now", but other than that...is Frazier that much better right now? Are you actually comparing Cordell & Frazier as prospects? I mean, I’m a big Cordell fan but Frazier is on another level.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:48 PM) I suspect they’d be happy to take any number of our assets off our hands for Frazier. If we offered a package of say, Dunning and Burdi, I’m pretty sure that deal gets done. There are any number of combinations that get it done, tbh. The White Sox would be one of the easier organizations to complete a deal with, IMO. I don’t think the Yankees accept that offer. They’re going to be looking for an arm that is close to major league ready.

I really don’t see a match here. Come July I want Delmonico & Jimenez in LF & RF on a daily basis. Plus we don’t have a major league ready arm that’s really expendable.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 03:51 PM) Baseball won't be like the NBA simply because of how random the playoffs are. In the NBA, the best teams almost always win their playoff series, which is how you get CLE vs GS 3 times in a row. In baseball, anyone can win a 7 game series, and that will mix up the finals and World Series winners. It also gives hope to lower level teams, just get in the dance and anything can happen. Baseball will never be like the NBA because it’s far easier to acquire star caliber talent and the fact that salaries aren’t capped removes the incentive for established stars to create superteams. Right now, we just have a lot of teams echoing what the Astros & Cubs successfully did. At some point in the near future some of these rebuilding clubs will join the upper ranks and create more parity across league. Things will never be as bad as the NBA.

Wow, I just saw the actual terms of the trade. What a horrific deal for the Marlins. They’re giving up $30M and the best prospect they get in return is Guzman. They should have waited and hoped Stanton would reconsider other teams eventually.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) The Yankees were on par with Cleveland and Houston last year, as shown in the playoffs. The real problem is can our rebuild get us past The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Indians, Astros. That's gonna be 5 really loaded teams. This is why it is important we have a relatively good season next year. If we look bad again we will not attract top FA's as they'd want to see some progress on the field. Great post. 100% agree. Also part of the reason I want to keep Abreu.

QUOTE (pktmotion @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:20 AM) Free Agents Hector Rondon Michael Pineda Jarrod Dyson Trades Abreu to STL for Carson Kelly, Jake Flaherty, Sandy Alcantara, & Jonathan Machado Garcia + Davidson to ARI for Pavin Smith & Anthony Banda Draft Nander De Sedas – SS Roll into the 2018 season with the best farm system in MLB – by a long shot – with strong competition in several key positions. Avi makes a ton of sense for AZ, just wonder if Smith is a little redundant with what already have in the system. I could see something built around Duplantier instead though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:12 AM) If the choice is "more dead police officers" or "More people killed by police officers", we need to be smart enough to find a third option. Your statement could be misinterpreted the same way as "you are quite literally advocating for more people murdered by police officers". I’m still trying to understand if you’re suggesting most police shootings are unwarranted because your use of the word “murder” certainly seems imply that.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 08:33 AM) Yolmer makes a lot of sense as a cheap 2b for Yankees to help out Torres He’d definitely make some for them, especially if Andujar is in the Stanton deal. Just don’t see the Yankees giving up the prospect currency is would take though. I still think Sanchez is a better match/fit for the Brewers.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 08:21 AM) Cubs just shredded their biggest competition for Bryce Harper Honest question, but can the Cubs actually add him and stay below the 2019 luxury tax threshold of $206M? The Cubs have nearly $100M committed to six players already (Lester, Quintana, Chatwood, Rizzo, Zobrist, Heyward). Bryant, Russell, & Hendricks will be in their second year of arbitration. Baez & Schwarber will be in their first year of arbitration. Let’s just hypothetically say those five guys earn a combined $40M. That basically puts them at $140M give or take for eleven guys. Even with Contreras & Happ still dirt cheap, they’d have roughly $67M to add Harper and fill all their remaining holes and quite frankly there are quite a few on the pitching side. Unless they’re willing to blow through the luxury tax, I just don’t see how they make Harper’s potential $40M AAV fit into their payroll.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:50 AM) Depends on money I’ve argued it before, but I think guys like Stanton are undervalued because of their contracts. There simply aren’t a lot of 6 WAR players in baseball so that type of production becomes a scarce resource even it doesn’t come with a ton of surplus value per se. Giants seemed to be offering a pretty serious package despite taking on most of Stanton’s contract. And it sounds like the Cardinals did as well. That kind of proves my point that stars like Stanton are worth more than their traditional surplus value. Unfortunately it sounds like the Yankees are going to get a steal here as the Marlins have no leverage.