Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 11, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) Why not before 8/1? Melky can be claimed by a team not that serious about acquiring him in hopes of Sox just let him go for nothing. I seriously doubt anyone claims Melky as they'd be on the hook for roughly $5M. The Sox will need to eat some money to move him IMO. And honestly, I think teams will explore better all-around options before the Aug 1st deadline. Teams that miss out and still need an OF or bat will then turn to guys like Melky.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2017 -> 07:08 AM) What is that comment about potential Moncada defensive issues not being correctable based on? How many times have you watched him on video or in-person, just curious...? Not saying you might not be right, necessarily. Everything he says is based on the 8 games & 20 plate appearances he had with the Red Sox.

For any regular visitors of mlbtraderumors.com, do NOT read the comments in the recent Quintana article. There is one guy who said he wouldn't trade Torres or Frazier for Mike Trout, so you can imagine his view on Q. But seriously, it's amazing how underrated Quintana is with other fanbases. I'd say 1 in 5 actually realizes how good he is, but the majority think he's just a middle of the rotation starter. Combine that with how often fans overrate their own prospects and you get some of the most ridiculous trade proposals I have ever seen.

Glad to see Nunez back. Hopefully he shows enough to make full season ball next year. I'm really hoping we sport a lineup like this at Kannapolis next year: 1B: Reyes 2B: Nunez SS: Curbelo 3B: Yurchak LF: Dedelow CF: Gonzalez RF: Mercedes C: Perez DH: Zangari That would be the most age appropriate we've sported in low A in years.

This derby has been awesome so far.

QUOTE (kwill @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 06:41 PM) My Plan. Trade Avi Garcia, Tommy Kahlne for Adrian Gonzalez, Alex Verdugo, Willie Callhoun, Will Smith and Starling Heredia. Dodgers Do It: They get to add depth to their pen which is good but struggled last year in the playoffs. Garcia would provide them with average to above average play in left field with cheap cost. Both Garcia and Kahlne are cost controlled for 2 more years. They get Adrian Gonazalez and his 22 million dollars off of there books for next year and drops them below the luxury tax. Bellinger can stay at his natural position of first base. White Sox Do It: They get 2 Top 100 players in Verdugo and Callhoun. Smith probably projects as a decent backup catcher in the future. Heredia is the flyer of the group at 18 years old you really don't know what he will end up being. White Sox have very little committed to 2018 so they could afford to have Gonzalez eating up a good portion of the team salary. Why It Wont Happen: JR is not paying that dough for a guy to sit on the bench and drink martinis. Trade David Robertson for Carter Keiboom and Jesus Luzardo. Nationals Do It: Because the Nationals need a closer and he is the best one on the market. The White Sox don't touch any of their untouchables in Robles, Soto or Fedde. White Sox Do It: Both players are a ways off from contributing but could be starters in the future. Beyond Moncada the White Sox are pretty bare when it comes to athletic infielders. Why It Won't Happen: Because people are idiots. I have seen this proposal from multiple Sox Talkers and yes this should be the price. Kieboom is not even a top 100 prospect yet. This price is more than fare. Trade Jose Quintana and Todd Frazier plus Cash to Astros for Kyle Tucker, Forest Whitley, Feudis Nova and Frambar Perez. Astros Do It: If there is one thing the Astros are lacking it would be another starter for them in the playoffs. Quintana could offer them a starter with cost control for the next 3 years after this one. Frazier makes sense as he could be an alternate to Gurriel, Bregman and Beltran. All three have underperformed this year. White Sox Do It: The White Sox get a top 15 prospect in Kyle Tucker and intriguing pitching prospect in Whitley. The other two guys are lottery tickets. Why It Won't Happen: The Astros will turn to A's for Gray that will have a lesser asking price even though it will hurt them in the playoffs. Well done post. All these trades are actually pretty fair. The Nationals trade is the same one I proposed and can't believe the Nationals would pass on that price.

I thought it was interesting that Dombrowski mentioned that when they were evaluating the trade, their internal projections had the Moncada + Kopech for Sale part of the trade being a small loss for them from an overall value standpoint. Will be fascinating to see this one play out as the range of outcomes could be insane. Right now, both sides have to be very happy, but I am interested in seeing if Cooper having Sale pitch to contact last year greatly reduced his chance of injury.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 03:25 PM) Yeah I can see exactly why the Astros would talk tough about Tucker being untradeable but it's hard to imagine them passing up on such an obvious improvement to their already-good World Series chances all because the Sox insisted on a 20 year who just got his first taste of AA. Ultimately if you want to make a deal that is so clearly good for a championship-type season, you have to be willing to have lost the deal when you look back a few years later. I doubt Cub fans really want to dump Epstein all because of the Chapman-Torres deal. Everyone knew how it was going to look. I think the problem is that Luhnow doesn't want to use his best trade chips on a guy who he doesn't consider an ace. And I get that line of thinking to some extent, but there are only a handful of those guys and no guarantee any of them will ever be available. IMO, Houston definitely needs to add another TOR starter to pair with Kuechel & McCullers. If they do that, they suddenly become perhaps the best all-around team and the favorites to win in October. Will be interesting to see what he ultimately does. I think not fully going for it this year in hopes a legit ace becomes available later is pretty damn foolish.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) I wouldn't personally make an Astros deal without Kyle Tucker included. Agree with this.

I was on an Astros message board yesterday and a poster alluded to Luhnow saying that Tucker & Whitely were both untouchables. That would leave their big trade chips as Fisher, Martes, & Perez. Fisher, plus one of those pitchers, plus Yordan Alvarez would not be enough for me. Don't get me wrong, Fisher is certaintly intriguing, but he seems way too risky to be the positional headliner in a Quintana deal.

Quintana & Swarzak to the Yankees for Frazier, Adams, Andujar, & Abreu Robertson & cash to the Nationals for Kieboom & Luzardo Frazier to the Red Sox for Chatham Melky for lottery ticket & some salary relief

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 02:41 PM) I agree with Brian here but only because people have unrealistic expectations. I know that baseball teams aren't sitting around looking at publication top prospect lists to make deals. However, when looking at a prospective deal, I think a top 30ish prospect, another back end top 100, an org top 10, and an upside flyer is realistic for Quintana. He's not Chris Sale. He'll bring back a lot though. After reading Heyman's piece today, it seems like Hahn is playing this thing perfectly. It's the same script as Jake Peavy and Chris Sale beforehand. They are asking for the sun and the moon and ultimately will accept "the sun". By asking the Yanks for Torres (Hahn likely knows this isn't happening) and Clint Frazier (Possible real #1 target) he's setting an unrealistic bar. Hopefully, Cashman agrees to Frazier and then you work in 2 guys instead of a monster package and so on. Something like Frazier, Adams, Florial, and Abreu would be a good deal for Sox but I do believe the fan base would be underwhelmed. I could see something like Corey Ray, Brandon Woodruff and Isan Diaz as well. I think that would be looked at as a "poor deal" but in reality it might be the best that they can do. That Yankees deal would be incredible IMO, but that Brewers deal would underwhelm me quite a bit. Ray has been terrible this year and in BA's Top 100 chat today it sounds like he's unwilling/unable to make adjustments, although I do like the other two pieces. I still think someone ultimately ponies up an elite positional prospect for Quintana or we take a semi-depth package like you highlighted from the Yankees.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) I don't know, I can't shake this part of the Sale trade. We had the best AL pitcher on a cheap contract and return an incredible haul of the best prospect in baseball and a top 5 pitching prospect in baseball. And it was then filled out with a B- prospect and a C prospect. Our value is off on either how much an elite prospect means in a deal or how much we value B prospects. I think a headlined deal of Frazier/Adams is very realistic territory. But what's behind them (even with Swarzak included), is where I think it's hard to know but I would bet we see a worse return than Abreu/Andujar. But maybe not maybe the fact that Abreu is so young makes him that 3rd piece. I don't necessarily think the headliner will be so disappointing but the return after the headliner. Look at Washington's rumored offer for Sale. Robles, Giolito, Lopez, & Dunning. I bet many of us would argue that's a better overall package than than what we ultimately accepted from Boston. I think problem here is that the Sox placed incredibly high rankings on Moncada & Kopech (rightfully so) that they didn't want to risk losing them over secondary pieces. There was an article that came out shortly after the trade that made it pretty clear that Dombrowski would have given up a little more than he ultimatlry did. Not Devers or Groome, but definitely better overall value than Basabe & Diaz. I also think there was some marketing going on and the Sox really wanted to say they traded Sale for the #1 prospect in baseball, although I'm sure this was a smaller consideration.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 01:04 PM) A depth deal could likely be trumped by another suitor at the deadline, I think the Sox would not be inclined to accept something like that when they do not have to. I wouldn't necessarily accept that right away, but I'd get something like that lined up and let other teams know you have something you're willing to move forward with. The Red Sox did not get serious with Sale until the Sox finally had a quality offer on the table from Washington. Teams may be unwilling to trade a blue chipper for Quintana until they feel like they're at risk of losing him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 12:40 PM) This could be very interesting. If the Sox were willing to back off of the two top guys, and take say 1 top guy plus 4-5 B guys instead, is the deal still worth it? I think so. The Yankees are so deep that they need to start converting their B tier prospects into controllable assets or risk losing some of them for nothing on an annual basis. What good does keeping Andujar around do for them if Torres is healthy and ready to take over 3rd. Or how about Albert Abreu who just reached high A but will need to eat up a 40 man spot for another two to three years. These would be excellent 3rd & 4th pieces for us, but have materially no impact on the Yankees long-term outlook. I'd still need one blue chipper (I still consider Frazier one) and a nice secondary piece if I were the Sox, but a could see this type of deal working for both sides.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 12:27 PM) Sox might not want to, but the market might dictate the Sox have to wait until the heat gets turned up on contenders with only two months left until the playoffs. I hope you are wrong and that we don't settle for a lesser deal for the sake of trading Quintana. The Cubs could be a dark horse due to their pressing need for quality starting pitching. They are in the middle of their contention window and adding a cost controlled starter like Quintana would go a long way towards replacing Arrieta/Lackey after this season. You would think the Cubs would be interested not just because of need but also to reignite their team. They definitely need to figure out what their OF is going to look like long-term and deal one of Jiminez, Happ, or Schwarber to shore up their rotation. I just don't see where Happ fits in if they're committed to Schwarber in LF. Something has got to give and need to find a way to land a cost-controlled TOR starter. They can't afford to waste the prime/cheap years of their young positional core with the starters they have in place currently.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 12:17 PM) This is a good point on The Yanks past, but I don't think the Sox want to wait til the Last couple days of June. I really think people are goin g to be disappointed in the return for Q. What are you hearing raBBit?

If I'm Brian Cashman, I look at my organization and consider the following factors when deciding how to proceed this trade deadline: 1) Currently has a wild card spot and within striking distance of the division lead (3.5 games behind BOS) 2) Significant immediate & long-term need for a TOR starter (preferably cost controlled) 3) Crazy 40 man roster crunch that will result multiple players being taken in next year's rule 5 draft 4) Tons of OF depth throughout the organization and four regular caliber players already on major league roster 5) Epic free agent class coming up in two offseasons with multiple star OFs & 3Bs 6) Real luxury tax concerns that must be considered when making moves between now and 2018/19 free agent class So when considering the factors above, Jose Quintana is the guy I'm targeting at this deadline. He meets short-term & long-term needs by giving the Yankees a cost-controlled veteran TOR starter to anchor their rotation for the next 3 1/2 years and mentor their young arms. He'll only count about $6M or so against the luxury cap, which doesn't impact their ability to be major players in the epic 2018/19 free agent class. And he allows them to spend their money on positional players rather than risking big bucks on a starter. I would also no doubt be willing to part with Clint Frazier in a Quintana deal. Judge has a spot locked up for the foreseeable future. Hicks is controllable for two more years and has been amazing. Gardner is still very solid and signed through next season. Ellsbury provides depth as well. And then you have quality prospects in Fowler, Rutherford, & Florial waiting in the wings. Given the upcoming roster crunch, it would be poor asset utilization to keep both Frazier & Fowler and they obviously can't move Dustin at the moment. So again, assuming I'm Cashman, I'd probably be willing to give up a package of Frazier, Adams, Andujar, & Abreu for Quintana & Swarzak. All four guys are expendable, it clears three 40 man roster spots for next year, fill two important needs right now, and provides my team with a quality veteran starter to anchor the rotation from 2018 to 2020. As long as Torres is off the table and the ask isn't both Frazier & Rutherford, I don't see anything holding up a deal from the Yankees perspective.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) Price said to be high on quintana. Hou, NYY waiting: https://t.co/k1n909Daip https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/884450862013321216 https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-pri...es-waiting/amp/ That's fine for now, but as we approach the deadline I hope Hahn becomes a bit more realistic with his demands. Also, thanks for posting this stuff Lifer! Much appreciated!

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) These are really good and realistic. One you didn't mention that I think would be valuable and realistic is LAD: Verdugo, Buehler, Calhoun/Diaz I think a Verdugo/Buehler package would work for us, but someone pointed that Dodgers' rotation is already stacked with lefties. Gray might be a better fit for that very reason. The Rockies should also be added to the list. They don't have a single starter who has gone 200 innings before. If they want to have a chance at a successful postseason run, they'll need to another quality starter with a history of durability like Q. I said it in another post, but Rodgers is the only guy they have capable or being a headliner. I'm doubtful they would move him, but then again their front office is a bit of a wild card.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 11:29 AM) Melky probably makes sense for the Yankees with what is going on with Bird. He gives them OF depth, but can DH everyday and let Holliday play 1B for the rest of the year. It won't be cost prohibitive in terms of prospects, and would provide an upgrade on their current production. I think Hahn is going to position Frazier as an option to both the Red Sox & Yankees. You're not going to get a ton for him regardless, but adding a bit of leverage could ensure a decent return.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 09:21 AM) Kopech will probably be the closer next season at some point. I hope to god that isn't the case. Kopech should be given every opportunity to start.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 09:50 AM) Adjust to new reality? Yeah, that doesn't sound like our fan base at all. Tatis Jr much? He's talking about our front office. If there is still a huge valuation gap between them and all other GMs on Quintana, then it's probably time for the Sox to rethink their demands. At some point Quintana's diminishing control will cause his value to drop as well, so we can't wait forever until someone pays our price. The clock is ticking and I think they'd be crazy to wait any longer to deal him, especially given the current market conditions for quality starting pitching.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 09:43 AM) If that happens long and consistently enough, at some point we have to accept that either (1) Quintana isn't valued as highly as we think he should be, or (2) the assets we want back are valued more highly than we think they should be. In both cases, we must adjust to the new reality, because neither condition changes our contention window. All the necessary market forces for optimized demand are in play and have been since the Winter Meetings. 100% this. I was trying to say this all winter, but you summarized perfectly.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 07:57 AM) I think most people drastically underestimate the amount of talent required to build a healthy, sustainably competitive system from top to bottom. The bust rate on prospects is very high. We do not have enough talent in our system to abandon opportunities to acquire the types of prospects that Quintana can bring. Don't forget that Quintana is, in all likelihood, this regime's last chance to acquire a "big" prospect from another system. There will be other trades to make, but none that can command a top-25 talent or two. After this deal, all of our studs are going to have to be drafted and developed from within. If you disagree with me, it means you think the pieces of our next competitor are mostly already here. If your best guess at our next contender depends on more than half of our prospects turning into productive big leaguers, you're way off. It's always "possible" for a miracle sot occur, but you don't go down this far down this road the bail early and launch a Hail Mary. This is a great post. Look at our system and see where we have star potential on the positional side. Moncada is the only guy with a high likelihood of becoming a star. Robert & Adolfo have the tools, but one guy has zero at-bats in the states and the other is K'ing at a 30% clip in low A. Collins & Burger both have All Star ceilings, but come with huge question marks. I'm not sure anyone else has star upside, at least not in full season ball. Point is we desperately need to add to our positional core. I actually feel pretty good about our pitching depth. I'd argue it's in the top 2 in baseball along with the Braves. But once Moncada gets called up and loses eligibility, our positional group is going to be pretty ugly for a rebuilding club. If we can add two more top 100 positional talents at the deadline by trading Q & Robertson, we're suddenly getting to a more respectable spot. But this is a process and we'll continue to need address this though in the coming years. The good news is that the 2018 draft is shaping up nicely for us to add another elite positional talent to the mix.