Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 6, 2017 -> 07:47 AM) There are posters who think Hahn is going to gut this team by the end of July. I really doubt that. I think he will make a big splash with either Q and/or Roberston as well as 1 reliever and Melky and/or Frazier. If he unloaded numerous players from the roster, he would have to turn to Charlotte which is a very mediocre AAA team. That in turn would require backfilling from AA etc. In essence, by wholesale dumping as the ML level, you promote young players at all levels who are not ready. I think Hahn will make a few deals this month to add young prospects from teams that are desperate. But he will wait until the offseason to unload the rest of the deadwood. No offense, but this is just way off. Hahn will trade his major league assets this trade deadline if and only if value is there. He will not hold a guy until the offseason simply because of who their replacement will be. And the Sox have numerous options to replace these guys anyways, between their legit prospects and some fringe guys. There will be no shortage of options to back-fill holes and they will not require us rushing guys. Also, Melky, Frazier, & Swarzak will all be gone by July or August as they will be free agents after the season. Robertson is also likely to be moved because he could be the only problem closer on the market. That's four guys at minimum that will be moved this season. And odds are Quintana is moved as well, again assuming value is there. There are going to plenty of changes between now and August 31st.

Frazier approaching an .800 OPS. People should stop assuming he'll be valueless at the deadline.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 04:46 PM) The lesson as always should be if you're a non contender sell high on premium relievers. The Thornburg return is a nice place to start Kahnle discussions, but that underrates his value because A) Kahnle has pitched better than Thornburg did last season and B) teams are willing to pay a premium for relievers in July because their value is enhanced so significantly in the playoffs. If the Sox are able to deal Kahnle for a package centered around a top 50/multiple back half of the top 100 type prospects it would be a mistake not to do so. I think what we've seen from Kahnle this season is legitimate and I'd be targeting him if I were a contender, but looking at reliever attrition rates it's probably less than 50/50 he'd have a role to play on the next good White Sox team. This is a great post. Most teams will want a longer track record before paying a high price for Kahnle, but there's always a chance that one front office out there believes in him and thinks one top 50 prospect and change is a steal for 3 1/2 years of an elite reliever.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 03:34 PM) The walks or power aren't coming yet like they did in the minors but he's close to giving a kick in the dick to the whole AAAA concept so many people here are fond of. He has an 82 wRC+ despite a .350 BABIP, I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) This has to be trolling right? The idea that anyone can just become a catcher and be smart enough baseball wise to do so. I already called him out for this. If that ain't trolling, then god help us all...

I still think a Robertson/Swarzak package makes a ton of sense for Washington. Swarzak won't bring back a ton on his own, but as a sweetener it might convince Rizzo to give up a Soto or Kieboom as part of a package. IMO, the Nationals need to add at least two bullpen arms and there is value to be had by leveraging one team (in this case the Sox) to fill all their bullpen needs.

Sustained success does result in many more bandwagoners jumping aboard. And honestly, those fans were a key part of our attendance figures from 2006 to 2008. Unfortunately, we couldn't string together enough playoff appearances to keep those bandwagoners for a lengthier period of time.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 11:19 AM) I think Kahnle could net a top 50 prospect and 2 fliers And we should probably take that offer as long one of those two fliers is actually a quality prospect and not just a lottery ticket. The one thing that gives me optimism for a quality return being available is that Kahnle can be a postseason weapon unlike most relievers that should be on the market, which basically allows for all teams to have interest, even ones with deep bullpens. All it takes is one GM thinking he's getting a potential Chapman/Miller type weapon on the cheap. And BTW, great article Y2Jimmy. I think you pretty much hit everything on the head.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:43 AM) Based on our minor league position player talent being a couple years away I would strongly consider resigning both First off, Melky is not a valuable player. I'm a huge fan of the guy's personality, but he doesn't the play the field at an acceptable level anymore. And it's only going to get worse as he ages. Second, we have multiple in-house replacements for both guys ready to go. Once Moncada is called up, we can choose from Davidson, Sanchez, & Delmoncio at 3B. For LF we can choose from Engel (or Leury), Willy, & Demonico. Why on earth would you want to block these guys with aging veterans?

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 08:01 AM) Still Top 3-5? For the millionth time, minor league W/L records system strength.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) Chicago Metro population = 9,512,999 Ok, let's assume the Cubs and White Sox can each capture half the market on average: Chicago Metro population divided by 2 = 4,756,500 Ok, now let's compare that to other market sizes: Atlanta = 5,710,795 San Diego = 3,263,000 Dallas/Ft. Worth = 6,426,214 Seattle = 3,733,580 Washington DC = 6,097,684 Phoenix = 4,574,531 Miami = 5,008,000 The White Sox are a mid-market team because, although Chicago is a large market by itself, the market is divided by additional competition, whereas most other baseball markets are not. I'm not sure it's that simple though. Some people watch and support both teams. There are definitely benefits to having access to 9.5M people, even if the hardcore fanbase is split across two teams. And your list above represents some of the largest markets in this country. So unless you only consider L.A. & New York large markets, half of Chicago should no doubt be included in that group as well. It's the Cubs factor and their draw with casuals that really prevents us from being in that group.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 08:54 AM) Frazier quietly has the 12th best overall WAR of any mlb starting third baseman at 1.7. He's striking out less and drawing more walks than before, and has put up his best numbers since June 1st. We have to hope that he has helped his value due to good performance. I 100% agree and his numbers are still negatively impacted by a low BABIP and not having a real spring training. Frazier is actually a pretty good player still, just can be frustrating to watch at times. I think if Moustakas is off the market, Frazier should net a decent return. And Boston is my predicted landing spot.

QUOTE (striker @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 08:35 AM) Groome is healthy again for the Red Sox. I still see them as a possibility for Q. Devers would be a great headliner in a deal with Groome being the second piece. I think there is almost no chance they trade Devers.

I think we'll be positively surprised by the Frazier return. It won't be headlined by a current top 100 prospect type, but either a prospect in the back half of an org's top 10 or a guy who was previously well regarded but has fall out of favor. I think we'll also get a lottery ticket too. Melky will not return much. I think even just salary relief would be a win with him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 12:31 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 Still 21st in fWAR, last debacle including two runs on the Lucroy blooper against Swarzak didn't hurt him that much. 4.07 fip, 4.21 xfip For the moment, no way the Royals trade everyone just 1 1/2 gb and tied with the Twins....so Vargas and Moustakas and Herrera being unavailable helps Q, Frazier and Robertson to a large extent. Shark is expensive and more of a 3 than a 2, at his best. The wild card here continues to be Yu Darvish as an impending FA, and Verlander for rich teams who'd rather take on a big contract than lose top prospects. Most rich teams still have luxury tax concerns. While I don't have the numbers in front of me, Quintana is like a $6M hit per year while Verlander is $20M+. And I fully expect the Tigers to want a quality return despite that hefty price tag. To me, Q is a completely different asset and one only slightly impacted by Verlander. If Cole went on the market, that would be a different story though.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 07:02 AM) Although a little dated, I think this article summarizes the market pretty well. It classifies the White Sox as the highest rated mid-market. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/961412-...-by-market-size While I'm not sure I agree with that article's write-up, I do think of us a high-end mid-market club. Just being in Chicago provides us with some advantages in terms of media deals despite only a fraction of the city being diehard fans. Ultimately the Cubs will always hold us back from being a true big market franchise. Sure, there's theoretically the potential for us to radically increase our share of the market, but so much would have to happen (starting with a new stadium on the lake or in the burbs) that it's incredibly unlikely to happen anytime soon. Us "acting like a big market club" (i.e. spending ridiculously) will not turn us into one overnight despite what Thad Bosley believes.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) I'm thinking lesser trade chips like Melky/Frazier/Shields go first since they can be had for cheap so I'll guess Shields goes first with the best trade chips not moving until closer to the deadline. No one is trading for James Shields.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 03:08 PM) I voted for Swarzak but another question might be who do you think doesn't get traded? I think everyone on that list but Avi/Shields/Abreu/Holland goes. Melky is an August acquisition for someone. Melky is definitely an August acquisition and won't fetch much. I do think Robertson goes first though. Swarzak will get dealt after David's situation is settled, although I think there is some chance that Swarzak is bundled with Robertson to the Nationals.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 07:59 AM) This thread is about team attendance, and therefore the spectrum of opinion can and should be expected to cover a wide range of views. From the excitement of following players this year like Avi, Jose, Yolmer, Kahnle, etc., who have given some reason to pay attention to this last place team, all the way to the frustration with an owner and his management team who have now brought us the fifth summer in a row of completely meaningless baseball in the middle of the summer. A thread like this will cover the whole gamete. To give this some further context, we the fans have not had a reason to get truly excited about a competitive White Sox team since Obama's first term, and the team has not made it to the postseason since George W.'s second term. There's your reason for the "doomsday" posts. Fix that and those posts go away, or at least decrease dramatically. But they are trying to fix it and yet you're still b****ing. Look, you have some legitimate points, but you repeat them over and over again despite the team doing exactly what you want them to do. This rebuild is going to be a lengthy process and you really need to give them time to execute on it before popping off with the same complaints ad nauseam.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 09:54 AM) I'm highly doubtful that kind of value exists for him, unless his mother were to own a team. Oh I totally agree, but all it takes is one GM who was enamored with his tools back when he was with the Tigers and believes those are finally materializing into a quality baseball player. Unlikely I know and obviously you would never get the return a 25 year old All-Stsr should net, but I'd probably take $0.75 on the dollar at this point and call it a win. Beyond the regression concerns I have (whether valid or not), I just don't see how he fits in long-term. Is he really a guy you want to lock up to a five/six year deal at this point? Committing big dollars to Avi without a larger sample seems like a risky game to play. If we had three or four more years of control I'd be more willing to see this through, but within the next 12 months we really have to decide we want to extend or trade him. And the more I think about it, the more I lean towards the sell side.

I really hope Hahn is seriously considering offers for Avi. If there is even one GM out there in need of OF help that views Avi as a near All-Star talent, then I hope Hahn finds a way to cash in now. For whatever reason, this recent slump has me spooked that the floor is about to fall out from under him.

Wow, not a single World Series champion Cub made the roster. Wade Davis the only the Cub at the moment.

Anyone else make it or just him?

Wow, Fulmer came out guns blazing today.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 1, 2017 -> 08:10 PM) Just an interesting notes on the players taken before Hansen in last years draft based on their results & stuff you could make the case for putting both Hansen & Dunning in the 60ish range post deadline update. Hansen & Dunning are pitching nearly as well as the top couple guys in the draft. Honestly, both guys could get looks at Birmingham later this season and push for major league jobs as soon as late 2018.