Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) "Giolito, Cease/Hansen , Burger, and Bummer....I think this is a package that gives the Os something to sell the fans" http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/ind...o/&page=116 Thought this was amusing. That's a package he would get with 5 years on his deal. I’ll say this much, if we end up doing a deal with the Orioles for Machado, one of the two fanbases is going to be really pissed. Anything that makes sense for us is going to feel light for them and vice verse. I don’t see possible deal that both sides feel good about. Also, props to Shack for trying to share some knowledge with the fans on that forum.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:20 PM) I read somewhere that Cafardo reported Sox offer was based off of current major leaguers. Don't quote me on that though. I still think the offer is way more than many think on here. Why do you think this?

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 06:46 PM) Your right. That definitely wont work. Hell it's not even worth exploring. Good call. Remember, money is everything in life. If we offer even a dollar more than the competition he’s as good as ours. It’s foolproof!

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 10:43 AM) I don’t understand this criticism of Balt as unreasonable. For a 72 hr window to work there would have to be some inclination the player would do it and no word from Machados camp would indicate they will. I don’t know, I find it incredibly hard to believe he wouldn’t hear a team out at least. He and his agent may go in with absolutely no intention of actually considering the offer received, but it would certainly seem to provide a piece of intel on how at least one team values him. I do M&A for a living and there have been multiple times we knew a target didn’t make sense or wasn’t a real possibility, but decided to hear them out anyways to gain access to their financials & operating practices. Agreeing to a 72 hour window costs Machado nothing, but could ultimately prove to be very valuable in the long-run.

Very interesting to read what about Orioles fans expect to receive in return for Machado. A good chunk expect an Ozuna like package, which seem a little light to me. These fans typically believe they should have sold earlier on him and the return will reflect that of a one year rental. Others still believe they’ll get a four or five player package headlined by a couple stud prospects. When discussing the White Sox, these fans believe they’ll get Kopech or Giolito (or both) along with several more high-end prospects. Just reading through these desired packages makes me extremely nervous. I still believe the price will be closer to the Ozuna return than something that would gut the system, but what would that actually look like for us? I’m guessing that Baltimore would require something like Cease & Dunning and that’s honestly too much of a pill for me to swallow. That’s two top 100 caliber prospects and would really eat away at our starting pitching depth. Now, if they’d consider something like Fulmer & Adams/Stephens I’d be game, but that just seems too light to me. I’m still perplexed how we could possibly be in the lead without including a single top prospect.

What’s funny is if Baltimore really wanted to prevent Machado from going to the Yankees, they’d agree to a 72 hour window with us, the Cardinals, the Phillies, etc. Obviously it’s highly unlikely he’d agree to anything, but what if one of these teams offered him 10/$400M right now? This whole keep him from the Yankees priority is pretty stupid IMO. I get not trading him directly to them or allowing a team like us to spin him right away to them, but ultimately there is nothing they can do to prevent the Yankees from signing him next offseason. Might as well go the 72 hour route before proceeding down the path they’re already going down.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 12:21 AM) They’re gonna mess this up, aren’t they? NBA hell here we come!

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:10 PM)

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:39 PM) Yes Who?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 06:59 PM) Wat Lol

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:15 PM) Also anyone thinking the Sox can catch lightning in a bottle and make the playoffs is similiarly delusional. They need a bullpen badly and the starting pitching probably isn't up to snuff yet either. Has anyone actually said this?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:07 PM) WE have no idea if Michael Kay is doing anything except just assuming he wants to be a yankee because all yankees people think everyone wants to be a yankee. Lol...love this post and so damn true.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 04:40 PM) Think of what the Sox had to give up for 1 year of Samardzija, and add some more. That is what their package must look like. Dick, I appreciate you as a fan & poster here. I think you know your s***. But right now, I think you’re arguing against no one. The debate isn’t whether or not the Orioles will take a moderate package from us, it’s whether or not we should do it. You’re probably right and ultimately someone offers up one pretty decent prospect to land Machado, but right now the rumor is we’re in the lead with a package that includes none of our top guys. If that’s the case, I have no problem with what Hahn is doing. If he gives up someone like Giolito, I’ll actually pretty be pissed. If he gives up Kopech, I’ll probably be posting from prison. I think most of us that are ok with potentially trading for Machado acknowledge that what we’d be ok with giving up more often than not wouldn’t be enough. But every once in a while the stars align a certain way where you get a guy for a sizable discount. And given we’re dealing with the Orioles, you simply never know. To me, it’s worth throwing our name in the hat and seeing if they bite on something unsubstantial.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:20 PM) You increase your chances tenfold when you buy 10 powerball tickets, yet it still doesn't work out most of the time. Lol...if the odds of landing Machado is as good as winning the Powerball then the mods should just shut down this thread. But without using ridiculous exaggerations, let’s say we have a 10% chance of signing him next offseason if we’re willing to match his best offer. If having him on the roster for the 2018 season improves our chance to let’s say 50%, again assuming we’re willing to match his best offer, does that seem like a value add? Debate the percentages all you like, but him getting to our players & organization will likely improve our chances of landing him. How much you pay for that benefit is also a good question, but there is most certainly a price I’d pay for it regardless if the Orioles would accept it or not.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) So you answered the question. There is still going to be a FA battle for Machado. This exercise is not creative, it's destructive. You lessen your talent pool in 2019 so you can show a player how nice you are for a season. Then another team will come along and show how much nicer they actually are by offering more money, and you will be worse off than you are now. Now you’re just being purposely obtuse. Every single person in favor of acquiring him now also realizes we must match whatever offer he eventually gets. No one is suggesting a discount, yet you keep reverting back to this point. Letting him develop a bond with our coaches & players may create a tie-breaker if the financials are equal. I don’t know how else to explain this.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:03 PM) If this strategy is so sound, how come it is hardly ever used? Not by the White Sox, not by anyone. Bartolo Colon, Andruw Jones, Kevin Youkilis are a few guys the Sox picked up with a year or so on their deals. I know they tried to bring Colon and Youk back, but it didn't seem to work. Those guys went to other teams, where they had never played before. Luckily they didn't give up anything of significance for their services. That will be different in this case. A whiff is going to hurt, and the White Sox with a $300 million + free agent are like Adam Dunn with an 0-2 count vs. Randy Johnson in his prime. Because the didn’t offer as much money as the competition? That’s a requirement for this plan to work in the first place...

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:57 PM) No one would give you an absolute, I'm sure Hahn wouldn't. I'm sure he'd tell you, as he has told the media, that they think it would be easier than going in cold, i.e. increase their chances and not guarantee it. 100% this. No one here is saying it’s a slam dunk, it definitely wouldn’t be. It’s about improving their odds.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) Yankees, Dodgers, same as the teams you worry about. Seattle gave him the best contract. That is what the White Sox will have to do with Machado, whether he plays the 2018 season for them or not. So just got to outbid the Yankees & Dodgers, two teams with unlimited amounts of money, by $65M or so! Seems like a flawless strategy!

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:10 PM) The deal is very similar to the Edwin deal. And Edwin was the far superior player.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:48 PM) That deal probably helps Abreu's valuation on the trade market. It also increases the cost of an Abreu extension.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) And amazingly he signed with Seattle without ever playing there. What were the market dynamics at that time? Who else was involved in the bidding? How much extra did the Mariners have to offer?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:03 PM) Avi and Anderson. Get it done Hahn. No go on Anderson. Avi I have no issues at all including.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) How do teams including the White Sox ever sign free agents if they need to play with them for a season to get the lay of the land? Won't these other teams you are worrying about have the same issue? What teams have traditionally signed all the major free agents? Pretty sure you’ll notice a trend. That’s not to say we can’t sign a major free agent, but trying to sign a generational talent like Machado will be an uphill battle given the demand and players involved. I’m willing to give up a small package of talent now if my odds increase significantly.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:20 PM) Left out of a ton of this conversation is whether it is a good idea for the White Sox franchise to pursue a free agent like Machado, who is predicted to end up with a $300-400 million contract over 10+ years. We all would love to have Machado, but I really wonder if it is in the club's best interest to sign a player to mega money for 10+ years, full NTC, multiple opt outs, etc. It looks like a great idea now, but paying a player $30-40 million when he is over ago 30 might not look so good. Thoughts? I fully expect any contract to have an opt-out after year four or five, so I’m not overly concerned about paying him into his 30’s. Our goal should be to maximize our competitive window of 2019 to 2023 and Machado should be in his prime all those years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:09 PM) I can't believe you think having him play a non competitive season for the team will help the White Sox cause. The Dodgers have Seager and Turner at SS and 3B. The Yankees may or may not be in the market for a 3B next season. If the White Sox want to sign the player, they are going to have to offer him the most attractive deal. He can talk to Ricky Renteria during negotiations. They can put together a presentation. Better be a hell of a presentation if it can convey a human connection as well S six to eight months with actual people would. And I’m not sure Turner is going to prevent the Dodgers from pursuing a generational talent.