Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 26, 2017 -> 09:23 AM) We don’t have to extend him. I think people are overrating the risk in keeping him or trading him. Until I see a trade proposal rumor indicating otherwise, I expect a return near but slightly better than JD Martinez. That type of return isn’t going to change the trajectory of rebuild. Nor will the money saved. His money on the books isn’t preventing anything, so the worst case is that he stays and sucks, but what we lost out on in holding him I’m not convinced will be disappointing. Is this in regards to Abreu or Avi? Because I think we’d do significantly better than a JD Martinez type return for Jose, even if it’s not ultimately enough to justify moving him.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 26, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) Anyone have a link that says this? This is the best I can find. It’s from a Buster Olney article a few weeks ago, but I’ve read similar sediments elsewhere. http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-olney/insi...season-question

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 26, 2017 -> 08:57 AM) Yaaaaawn The best part is these delusions are based on nothing. When is the last time the Sox embarked on a rebuild? For better or worse, Reinsdorf has forced the front office to “go for it” pretty much the last 20+ years of his tenure. Nothing in his track record suggests he wants a lengthy rebuild to ensure “profits”, which is still one of the dumbest demonstrations of logic I’ve ever seen on this board. Furthermore, Jerry is a 81 years old billionaire with a minority stake in the team but also a controlling interest. His only objective at this point is to win another World Series before he dies. Generating these hypothetical “profits” doesn’t really help his end game, it would just make some partners richer and they ultimately have no say in the matter.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Nov 26, 2017 -> 07:50 AM) Agree. I don't get the obsession to trade away the best players. I guess everybody wants play GM and it's fun to chat about, but that's it. I'm all for paying Abreu and Avi and build around those guys. I think the majority of people want to keep Abreu unless blown away. Unfortunately, certain posters continue to ignore the “blown away” part because it doesn’t fit their agenda. Would you trade Jose for a Eloy Jimenez like prospect? I really hope your answer is yes. As for Avi, there isn’t clear evidence at this point that extending him to an expensive long-term contract is the right move. If you personally believe the 2017 version of Avi is hear to stay, then by all means argue for keeping him. But a lot of us have our doubts and would like to capitalize on his what could be his peak value (if at all possible) and use those financial resources down the road to sign a Manny Machado type talent.

The more I read/think about this, the more I believe the Sox can win this sweepstakes. Having said that, let me reiterate that my beliefs are entirely based on the rumor he doesn’t want to go to an established club and the theory that money isn’t a factor at all here (based on him leaving early). So first thing’s first, I can’t see an NL team pulling this off. Everything out there including this new memo demonstrates the importance of being able to pitch and hit and requires the DH. I’ve seen people suggest he could play the OF on off days, but that seems like a trap answer and something that isn’t actually viable if he wants to ensure his own health. And he hasn’t played the OF in a few years IIRC, so it really seems DH or bust. But beyond just being an AL team and having a DH spot available, how many teams can really commit to him there with no contraints? Can a contender like the Yankees really promise 600 ABs no matter how Otani is performing? This ties back into the wanting to join a non-established club rumor, but the Sox can promise him a spot in their lineup for the next two years and allow him to go through his growing pains with no constraints whatsoever. They can give him a real opportunity to prove himself as a potential two way player, which is obviously very important to him. This point shouldn’t be overlooked. And the fact we’re rebuilding also allows us to adjust our rotation and pitching schedule as needed to accommodate Otani’s first year in the majors and ensure a healthy transition. Contenders may be leery of moving to a six man rotation as it could have on the field impacts. Those concerns will be less important to us next year since winning isn’t a primary objective. But the commitment to health goes well beyond year one and as I alluded to in a previous post no one keeps their pitchers healthier and productive than the White Sox. That point should not be understated when selling him on the White Sox. But there are other factors that help us as well. Chicago is obviously a massive media market, which checks off what seems (based on the memo) to be an important box and helps distinguish us from several other non-established clubs. Our organization has always been a champion for diversity, with both an African American team president and a Hispanic manager demonstrating that point. And I think we’ve done a incridble job assimilating foreign players into the clubhouse, whether that be Shingo & Iguchi or Alexei & Abreu. Jose in particular should be used as a huge selling point, as he’s immediately become a clubhouse leader and has been historically awesome from the get-go. That type of transition should speak volumes to Otani. And along these lines, I’d also stress our organization’s commitment to its players & employees (i.e. loyalty). Working for a Japanese company, I can’t understate the importantance of this point. And given this guy has an uncertain financial picture in front of him, the fact we take care of / stick with our people becomes even more important. The last selling point and one that shouldn’t be overlooked is what we’re building here. Otani has an opportunity to be the face of this rebuild. He can head a rotation that would also include Rodon, Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, & Hansen. That would be without question the most talented group of pitchers in baseball and he’d be at the top of it. Sell this as the next 1990’s Braves pitching staff if need be. Furthermore, he’d also get to anchor an exciting young lineup with Abreu and potential stars in Moncada, Jimenez, & Robert and whatever we can buy in free agency. Again, not only does he get to be part of an exciting young team but he gets to make a major impact on both sides of the field. Our contention window aligns perfectly with his and the role he’d play in that should be one of our top selling points. He can be the face of the most exciting up-and-coming team in baseball. How many teams can offer that? I’m sure I’ll get some TLDR replies and other will say this was a waste of time and that we have no chance, but I think some posters are selling ourselves short here. IMO, we are in a pretty unique situation and can offer Otani a city/team/situation/environment that is hard to match. If money is truly not a factor and this memo suggests it isn’t, then I really think we can win this thing.

It’s amazing how far Call & Fisher have fallen. These guys had previously been cemented in the low to mid teens and now are barely cracking these top 30 lists. I included Call at the back end of mine simply because I think injuries prevented us from getting a fair look at him last year. Fisher’s 2017 season was immensely dissapointing to me. The “plus” hit tool hasn’t really flashed and the power hasn’t been great for a legit 23 year old playing in A ball. Combine those with defensive limitations/issues and he’s lost almost all his prospect shine to me. For better or worse, I really think the Sox need to be aggressive with Fisher next year and let him sink or swim in AA. There’s too much OF depth in the low minors right now and Robert, Basabe, Rutherford, Adolfo, & Gonzalez are all better prospects who are more deserving of high A playing time. That doesn’t even include Call who I’d also prioritize at-bats to over Fisher. Jameson better figure his s*** out next year and fast because there’s a ton of talent just waiting to pass him by.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 25, 2017 -> 07:19 PM) Coop + Herm * display history of success = good. Also interesting that he specifically asked for no financial aspects to be set forth. I don't know much about what Chicago has to offer when it comes to the cultural aspects requested. Still putting our odds at 1 in 1,000,000,000 That’s an absolutely huge selling point. No organization has done a better job of keeping pitchers healthy & productive than the White Sox and hopefully it’s not understated in their sales pitch.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 25, 2017 -> 08:45 AM) This is great and pretty much mine. I may remove Burr and add Sosa just because I wrote a long post on him so now I’m invested. I’ll be honest, I really struggled with those last four guys. There were probably a dozen or so up for consideration. I actually wanted to included Sosa, but haven’t found too much about him online and clearly there isn’t going to be much video either at this point. Do you mind bumping your post about him or sharing it in this thread? The fact that they brought him over so quickly hopefully speaks volume how the organization feels about him. And we definitely need some of these LatAm signings to start doing something, as my list only had one (excluding Robert) that was orginally signed by the Sox and that’s obviously not good.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 24, 2017 -> 11:31 PM) I don't think it happens either. Keep Abreu . Who knows how Moncada might react to losing a mentor and friend and after all it was Abreu who said Moncada should use a lighter bat. We all know how talented the kid is but I like his chances of being a star more with Abreu in his corner. I think this is part of it, but I also think we need some certainty in middle of our lineup. Jimenez is really the only prospect I feel confident about turning into that type of hitter at the moment and you’re putting a ton of pressure on him to carry the offense if we trade both Jose & Avi. Again, unless someone is offering a true blue chipper, which is doubtful given the amount of 1B options on the market, I’d try to sign Abreu to a reasonable four year extension. If he’s not game for that, I’d start marketing him much more intensely, but I see him as a guy who would like to stay with this team for the foreseeable future.

Tier 1 - 65/70 FV 1. Eloy Jimenez, OF 2. Michael Kopech, RHP Tier 2 - 60 FV 3. Luis Robert, OF 4. Alex Hansen, RHP Tier 3 - 50/55 FV 5. Zach Collins, C 6. Dane Dunning, RHP 7. Dylan Cease, RHP 8. Blake Rutherford, OF 9. Jake Burger, 3B Tier 4 - 45/50 FV 10. Micker Adolfo, OF 11. Carson Fulmer, RHP 12. Zach Burdi, RHP 13. Spencer Adams, RHP Tier 5 - 40/45 FV 14. Casey Gillaspie, 1B 15. Jordan Stephens, RHP 16. Gavin Sheets, 1B 17. Jordan Guerrero LHP 18. Thiago Vieira, RHP 19. Ryan Cordell, OF 20. Seby Zavala, C Tier 6 - 40 FV 21. Luis Alexander Basabe, OF 22. Ian Clarkin, LHP 23. Luis Gonzalez, OF 24. Bernardo Flores, LHP 25. Luis Corbelo, SS 26. Tyler Johnson, RHP 27. Jace Fry, LHP 28. Ryan Burr, RHP 29. Alex Call, OF 30. Justin Yurchak, 3B

I just don’t see the point of trading Abreu unless you get a legit blue-chipper for him. While you can certainly can never have enough prospect depth, at some point that depth comes with diminishing returns. We’re already starting to have 40 man roster issues, so adding more prospects will likely require us to let go of some other (lesser) talent down the road. Furthermore, you simply run out of opportunities to give these guys all looks. By the end of this coming season we could have a rotation of Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, & Hansen plus guys like Adams, Stephens, & Guerrero (if around) in AAA and other key prospects like Dunning, Cease, etc. at other levels. Obviously we lack depth at other positions, but again, unless we’re adding a blue chipper I don’t see the point of selling Abreu, especially not when we’ll have plenty of money to plug any gaps with serviceable players. Avi is a different story because either you have to be confident in extending him for big money or sell him off in the next two years. Given our minor league OF dept (which is quite extensive) and Avi’s checkered past, I think selling is the right call. And while I would definitely not just give him away, I don’t need a blue chipper to move him like I would with Abreu.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 22, 2017 -> 10:06 PM) Another aspect of Machado that hasn't been discussed ( to my knowledge ) is his character. The dude seems like a walking primadonna in the vein of ARod-lite. In most free agent and trade target related discussions, Kenny Williams and RH both have always seemed to place a high importance on these "intangible" items... like personality, character, and clubhouse leadership skills. I wonder if Manny brings up a red flag to the brass in our front office. This is a fair point. Character becomes much more important when you’re making a potential $300M+ investment. At the same time, there simply aren’t a lot superstars that become free agents at 26. I still think they go for him because outside of any character concerns he’d really be a perfect addition.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 22, 2017 -> 10:36 PM) FYI, I dont get the impression they are going to spend money this offseason, we are maybe a year away from that. Who said otherwise? The point of this thread was to talk about spending next year.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 23, 2017 -> 12:14 AM) Let Rockstar take over. I want to be able to play as Jabba, fondling slave women all day, or fly around on my speeder bike, decapitating Ewoks with my light saber. Rockstar is printing money with GTA V, they’re not paying for a Star Wars license they don’t need to sell games. As for EA, I believe their licensing agreement runs another five years, so expect to be dissapointed with Star Wars games for a while. They even just decided to completely reboot a big story-centric Star Wars game that had been in development for multiple years because it was too “linear” and lacked games as a service characteristics. Developing a good single player Star Wars game should be a no brainer, but EA doesn’t appear to have much interest in delivering what fans actually want and will continue to push of flawed, micro-transaction fueled offerings like BF2.

Machado is going to get an opt-out, so I think contract length is less of a concern. Regardless, I don’t see him getting more than 10 years. Let’s say you pay him $35M/year with an opt-out after year 4. You basically need 16 WAR over his 26 to 29 year old seasons to break even. IMO, that seems like his floor and you could very well get 24 WAR over that period. The obvious risk with a Machado signing if he suddenly pulls a Heyward and now you’re stuck with an albatross contract for 10 years. But honestly, that seems like an incredibly unlikely outcome to me and we can’t be afraid to take small, calculated risks to add impact talent when we’ll have money to burn.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 09:34 PM) 425 moons. So much left to do It’s wild how big this game is. I’m at like 550 moons and feel like there’s probably another 30 hours or so of content if I decide to 100% it. I actually decided to start CoD: WW2 last night as I needed a breather. Finding the last couple moons in each kingdom can be super tough at times.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 22, 2017 -> 04:11 PM) The Mariners are on the west coast, have traded for additional bonus pool $, have made an early offer to bring Iwakuma back to Seattle and are suspected to be interested in reuniting with Ichiro. Things could be lining up for Seattle. And that’s fine by me. Would rather have him end up in Seattle than with the Yankees or Dodgers or god forbid the Cubs.

Look, we probably have a 1/1000 chance of landing him, but the fact he’s turning down a potential $200M contract and coming over now means the typical rules don’t apply. This guy clearly wants that GOAT status. The Sox can legitimately provide him with an opportunity to be MLB’s first legit two-way player as well as being the focal point of a a very promising up-and-coming team. Not a lot of other organizations can truly offer that IMO.

QUOTE (shipps @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 02:38 PM) Jim Callis‏Verified account @jimcallisMLB Following Following @jimcallisMLB More Jim Callis Retweeted Jeff Beck My updated Top 10 farm systems: 1. @whitesox 2. @braves 3. @padres 4. @Phillies 5. @RaysBaseball 6. @Dodgers 7. @Athletics 8. @Yankees 9. @Brewers 10. @Reds This is amazing considering Moncada, Giolito, & Lopez are no longer eligible. We lost the #1 prospect in baseball plus two more top 50 guys and we’re still firmly at #1 and have the 4th overall pick in next year’s draft.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) Ha, well at least they got some benefit to it pre penalty. We got nothing from Wilder AND then had to start from scratch years later. Braves definitely came out in better shape than us. Just funny given how much serious/extensive it seems this offense was and yet we ultimately paid a bigger price. Obviouslg happy with the punishment here regardless. This type of behavior can not be tolerated or it will continue to foster.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 02:20 PM) Wow. So they are basically going to go 5 years without real international signings. Damn. So basically what we did after the Wilder fiasco

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) Honestly it is the last area I would look at. We have a pack of true relievers who throw in the high nineties or better in the system in Diaz, Burr, Burdi and Vieira. They also have lot of minor league starting pitchers who are doing the same, many of whom will absolutely fail to get the majors as a starter. The Sox do still have some live arms sitting on the 40 man roster as well who could round into a relief core. Plus with the year to year volatility of relievers, it is tough to justify eight figures a year for the good ones when you have so many plus arms in the system. I don’t think there is anything wrong with buying at least one elite reliever. Adding a guy like Kimbrel or Miller adds quite a bit of certainty to the back-end of the pen. With a young, developing staff I think that’s invaluable. Plus we should have millions upon millions to spend. Honestly, I pretty surprised at how conservative some of these plans are. The luxury of having a surplus of young, cost-controlled talent in place is you can spend a bit lavishly in free agency and go after the best / most dominant players. Elitr elievers shouldn’t be excluded from consideration IMO.

It would really suck the Yankees somehow landed him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 01:43 PM) Joel Sherman‏Verified account @Joelsherman1 18m18 minutes ago Joel Sherman Retweeted MLB Trade Rumors If it matters, it is going to be more than 4 prospects made free This is good news. The more players made the available, the better chance we have of landing one for $300k.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 01:23 PM) Dom Nunez, Jason Martin, and some of the arms seem interesting. Not much beyond that, though. It's a group in which I could see Jordan Guerrero in the top 5. Yeah, Guerrero defintiely looks like one of the better prospects who will be available based on that list.