Chicago White Sox

I'm not sure why so many people seem think the only way to evaluate a manager is by wins & losses. Talent is always going to be the primary driver of on-field results, so using it as a basis of manager performance is pretty stupid. Instead, focus on the things the manager can control. First, Robin has shown time and time again he is a terrible in-game manager. Second, his teams have consistently played fundamentally poor baseball, which he deserves some (not all) blame for. If you actually watch the games, these issues become clear as day. Doesnt matter if the Sox were to win 100 or lose 100, the poor decision making and lack of preparation/accountability would still make Robin a bad manager.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 09:59 AM) MLB teams use coaching firings as misdirections. They fire your manager to appease the mob, despite the fact that there's tons of evidence -- observational, anecdotal, sabermetric, and otherwise -- that suggests that the manager has very little, if anything, to do with how well the team performs. Why are you all playing into this? If you want to hold the White Sox accountable for losing, do it by asking why we have Avisail Garcia. Do it by pointing out that there were signs that Adam LaRoche or Alexei Ramirez would fall off a cliff. The players are the ones that are failing. Changing managers will do nothing to help your team, so stop letting the media and PR department "satisfy" you with manager-personnel decisions. Mind sharing this evidence? Would be interested in reading up on this.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) We haven't. We need to lose today, and Seattle needs to win. QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) If we lose today and Seattle wins we can still get the 10th pick. Thank you. I hate cheering against the Sox, but today will be one of those rare days I do.

For the love of God, please tell me we haven't been eliminated from protected pick status!?

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) My way-too-early opening day starting lineup prediction for Sox: CF- Eaton 3B- Prado 1B- Abreu LF- Melky C- Wieters DH- LaRoche RF- Thompson SS- Ramirez 2B- Sanchez SP- Sale 3 main offseason acquisitions will be Wieters, Prado (trade) and Buehrle Don't see this team taking a step forward until they add legit impact bat to pair with Abreu. IMO, we have to sign one of the big four OFs or Chris Davis, unless they want to go the trade route for a guy like Puig. Once you land that guy, it becomes a matter of filling holes, but Wieters & Prado alone isn't moving the needle enough.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Seriously. Our three biggest contracts ever add up to a good over/under for Heyward. 194.5 what you guys got? Not targeted at you raBBit, but the Sox have gone after big fish in the past but simply couldn't land them. Tanaka is the most recent example, but there are few others like Hunter & Fukudome. Also, I'm almost positive the Sox were willing to go 10/$190M on A-Rod before he signed with the Rangers. Point is while the Sox haven't signed a lot of crazy contracts in the past, it doesn't mean they haven't been willing to. And with their TV deal expiring in a few years, they should be very motivated to build up interest in the team beforehand and that could very well mean being major players in free agency the next few off-seasons.

Interesting note about Parent likely being replaced with a Spanish speaking bench coach. Anyone got any ideas on who could fill that role? Would love to add a guy with previous manager experience to help Robin with the in-game stuff.

I'm sorry, but in what other industry does management come out and blame the fans for their inferior product? It's complete bulls*** to blame attendence for our lack of resources. Almost all successful organations had to invest in the quality of their product before building a strong customer base. Here we get the "I can't spend a dollar if I have 50 cents" crap. Any other company would have gone out of business a long time ago with that mindset, but since this is baseball us loyal fans have no choice but to accept management's shortcomings and support the team. However, those who simply view White Sox baseball as another form entertainment can weigh their alternatives and spend their limited disposal income elsewhere. And until our ownership group decides to commit their own resources (not just what the P&L allows) towards building a premier White Sox product, there is no reason to expect fan support from anything but the most hardcore of fans.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 10:21 PM) Cutler isn't going anywhere. Pace has too many holes to fill. If he thinks he can get a franchise guy this year, I may be wrong, but I don't see it. Cutler isn't part of the future "good Bears" so you dump his ass if have the chance.

Good to here about Cruz's defense at SS, no reason to switch him to 3B just yet.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 27, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) Isn't fWAR considered better than bWAR? I think most sabes (as Greg calls them) feel fWAR is better because it values pitchers on what they specifically control (HRs, BBs, & Ks) and pulls out most of the impact defense has on their bottom line performance.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 27, 2015 -> 11:20 AM) Okay - trade Quintana. No objection. But who takes Rodon's spot? Pass on rushing Fulmer (who needs to get his delivery straightened out) or Adams (who's a ways away). Of course teams have veterans. But winning teams aren't built with veterans. They plug a hole or two or provide depth. Building with vets is what the Sox tried to do and what the fans want them to do (I can't wait until Todd Frazier and Lucroy are put on the block this winter...the hero-worship will break records; and if someone mentions Longoria......). As for Eaton, I simply don't believe he plays to his offensive numbers. Thus, it would be a value trade. Thompson is a better CF than he is anyway. Okay, don't trade him for prospects. Trade him for an equivalent 3b. Can you elaborate on this "don't believe he plays to his offensive numbers"? Not sure what that really means. Also, as great as Thompson has looked so far, it would foolish IMO to hand him a starting job next year. Let him be your 4th OF and platoon partner for LaRoche (playing CF those days, with Eaton in LF & Melky at DH). If the need arises, then you give him a chance as an everyday starter. Given the question marks with this lineup, we're going to need a deep bench to hedge some of our risks and Trayce fills one of those roles perfectly.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 26, 2015 -> 07:55 AM) Agree. The Sox improved 10 games making small trades of one young player for another. I still have no idea why they reversed course of the winter of 2014 and did moves for veterans that weakened the organization. Now they can move Eaton for probably two young promising players. Like a pinhooker- buy the Yearling and flipping for multiples of value at two. Dude, prospects flop all the time. You trade Eaton for two of them you'll be lucky to even get one that turns out as good as him in the long-run. Sure, there's a small chance you end up with a better player or both prospects work out, but the odds are incredibly low. If you're going to take that gamble, you might as well trade the rest of your assets (Sale, Quintana, & Abreu) and straight-up rebuild, because you're pushing your timeline back another year or two. As disappointing as this season has been, we still have a playoff caliber pitching staff in place. Putting together a legit offense will be challenge, but one that's not necessarily impossible if they're willing to commit some resources to fixing it (cash & minor league pitching). Again, if ownership & the front office aren't willing to do that, then blow this f***ing thing up, as you definitely don't want to get stuck in the middle.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) So Garcia is quickly reaching bust status but the guy who's older than him, put up inferior numbers than him in the minors and has had nothing more than a cup of coffee in the Majors isn't? How does that work? This love affair with Trayce Thompson is getting a little ridiculous. At the beginning of this year the consensus was pretty much he could be a 4th outfielder at best. Now all of the sudden some act like he's the next Mike Trout or something. Thompson may be over-hyped around here, but he also has skills (defense & BB %) that translate better to the pros than what Avi has to offer. Ultimately I see Trayce as a vey strong 4th OF who can platoon against LHP, while Avi will never hit enough to make up for his defensive short-comings. My recommendation is trade Avi for another young position player with question marks like Plawecki from the Mets.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 21, 2015 -> 10:47 PM) I guarantee you he gets more than 3/60. Four years minimum. Four years 80 would be the minimum offer or four years 76 million. Four years at 18 mill a year is probably what he'll get. maybe the full 80 million with a fifth year option. Wow, I 100% agree with you here Greg. I think 4/$75M is very doable for Shark.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 20, 2015 -> 07:38 PM) You are a terrific poster on this site and I always enjoy your thoughts and opinions on all things White Sox. Just curious to pick your brain on your reaction to my Stone comment, why you don't think it would be a good idea. Stone's been around the game for a long, long time, and is well regarded in his knowledge of the game. Over the years I've always sensed that regard was for his understanding of the game both on and off the field, including his understanding of the business side of the game. I do think he exhibits the types of competencies and know-how of the game to be able to function highly in a front office position. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd love to hear you expound on your thoughts on this. Quite simply, I'm just sick of internal hires and/or guys with limited/no experience. That's obviously geared moreso to our recent manager hires, but I want our organization to start targeting experienced, external candidates for all our leadership positions. We aren't going to take a step forward until we bring in some fresh blood into the organization. And while I think Stone seems to be very baseball intelligent (a bit too old-school for my taste though), he's never been involved in a player acquisition role before. He's never dealt with negotiations, hiring scouting & developmental personnel, or even dealing with a budget. To assume he can handle all these responsibilities and more is simply too much of a gamble for my blood. And let me add that if we were to need a team president to replace KW, Dombrowski would have been the perfect target.

I like Steve Stone, but holy f*** do not make him the team president under any circumstance. That would be a bigger joke of a hire than Ventura was as manager.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 07:13 PM) I don't think there's any chance that he gets "3 or 4 years" at anything close to that value with the number of pitchers on the market who have no QO. That's why I think that there's going to be a strong suggestion to "Take it if offered". Balta, I get you wouldn't give him a 3 or 4 year deal, but there will be at least one GM willing to do so. This is Major League Baseball, stupid contacts are given out every year. We'll offer him the QO, he'll reject, and then sign a multi-year below his expectations with some team. Probably the Yankees cause Jim Hendry is there. Guys rarely go from potential seven figure contracts to being limited to one year offers because of single bad year that had nothing to with injuries.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 07:51 PM) He could have thrown a perfect game tonight and I would have said same thing. Looking at mookie's numbers just now on fangraphs just makes me want a mega-deal with Boston even more Fair enough then. I just don't think any of us should overreact to his putrid numbers as of late (whether due to a tired arm or simply losing focus in a lossed season), when we all saw how dominant he's capable of being earlier this year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 07:11 PM) Also forget trading Q, the real piece Hahn should be using is Sale to get some impact bats Fathom, you've officially hit an all-time low in terms of overreactions.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 12, 2015 -> 08:43 AM) Outfield defense has to be resolved. Either Melky or Avi needs to be a DH more than an outfielder. The Sox need to acquire an outfielder who can hit and defend. For example, Boston now has 3 young outfielders hitting above .280 all of whom are above average defensively. Maybe Hahn could get one of them and one of their young catchers in exchange for pitching. At the trade deadline, I has proposed Q for Bradley and Swihart + prospects but my guess is Boston won't do that now that Dombrowski has taken over and Bradley has exploded. I agree we can't enter 2016 with Melky & Avi in the same OF. I'm fine with one of them in LF, but like you said we need a legit two-way player for RF. If you could find a taker for LaRoche (while eating half his salary), I'd be ok with rotating Melky & Avi between LF & DH next year. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with him, which makes giving Avi another opportunity a tough proposition. If we're serious about competing next year, under no circumstance can we give LaRoche, Melky, & Avi the majority of the playing time in LF, RF, & DH. An upgrade is needed in addition to using Trayce off the bench against LHP.

Anyone got some guesses on the type of contracts the big four OFs get this offseason? Really think we got to snag one of these guys. I know we'd have to give up a draft pick to sign all of them but Cespedes, but this team isn't take a big step forward without adding some legit bats.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 10:21 PM) I think the Sox need to get multiple boppers. Longoria, CarGo/Puig. Hell, I'd check in on Detroit to see if they'd be willing to deal Miggy or the Angels with Pujols. Look at Beltre. I need at least 3 proven bats, I need LaRoche gone, I'm willing to deal Q. Definitely let Jeff S go. I think two legit bats (preferably RF & 3B) and improvement from some of our holdovers makes us contenders next year. The pitching staff should actually be better with Rodon's continued development, Johnson replacing a disappointing Shark, & a full season of Nate Jones. We don't need an elite offense, just can't be bottom five in OPS & ISO like we are this year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) Why would you say you can win with Melky and not Avi? Melky has also been one of the worst OFs in baseball this year, his defense hasnt been quite Garciabad but his offense has been worse. If Melky goes on your list of guys you can win with then Avi does as well. Because 2015 2016 and Melky has an actual track record of being a good hitter. Unless you believe peds are the reason for his drop-off, I think there's reason to expect a decent amount of positive regression next year. As for Avi, his lack of plate discipline gives me little faith he'll turn the corner. Definitely could happen, but there is nothing available today that makes me feel confident that he'll be more than the next Viciedo.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 9, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) Really the only value that the Sox have to trade is veteran starting pitching. Oh they can shuffle the Danishs and perhaps Micah but leave A ball alone - a lot of talent of which it's still to hard to judge real value. And some want to trade Avi - can't wait to get rid of him. This is his first full ML season and he's doing pretty well. Ridiculous. I listened to a Law chat and someone asked him about Trayce. He says that Trayce is a 70 defensive centerfielder. But he doesn't like the bat at all because the swing is long and somewhat loopy. He hasn't seen Trayce on the Sox, though. So my question, is his swing still long? Or has the pitching coach, perhaps, done something with him. Because if this is sustainable, or partially sustainable, the Sox have another trade chit: Eaton. The Sox aren't trading their second best hitter when they're desperate for offense, especially not when he is cost-controlled for multiple years.