Lip Man 1

Or...he's just not very good...period.

Very true and that's where not being willing to spend money and having a bad farm system (again because JR admittedly refused to pay for potential) really killed them in years when injuries hit. 2001, 2004, 2007 and 2010 immediately come to mind.

OK.... Whatever you say sir. ?

I can't speak for everyone but I was damn excited during the two time periods I listed. 1977 and 2005 were one year wonders. To do something sustained is the mark of excellence and the two runs I mentioned while not Yankee or brave like were still worth mentioning. As I said they aren't chopped liver to be dismissed out of hand or tossed in the garbage. That's plain nuts.

Well they had a nice run overall from 1981-1985 and from 1990-1996. 81-85, four winning seasons, lots of excitement and a division title. 90-96, six winning seasons, a division title, opening of a new ballpark and the rise of some very good young players. That's not exactly chopped liver.

Until the White Sox prove they can develop their young kids AND actually keep them healthy, I'd say they haven't hit rock bottom yet.

MLB.com now has a story quoting Harper as saying he's going to start "recruiting" Trout for the Phillies in 2020.

Giolito kind of "meh" today, Minaya looked brutal yet again. How many chances is this stiff going to keep getting from this organization?

Between 1963 and 1967 the Sox led the league in ERA four times and missed leading it the 5th season by a very slim margin to the Orioles as I remember. They produced pitchers like Detroit produced cars back then.

Eddie Stanky at times also batted Peters 6th or 7th in the lineup on the day he was pitching!

If (maybe) winning 70 games passes as "enjoyment" for you then I admire your definition of the word. Not trying to be sarcastic but when you've had the past 12 years like the Sox have which by and large have been awful, its hard to find enjoyment in the game...maybe in some individual performances, but the object is to win, that's why they keep score and the Sox have been brutally bad at winning. Doesn't mean I'm going to give up on them before anybody spits that nonsense out, I was born and raised in Chicago, I'm a Sox fan and I'll stay a Sox fan but this season is going to be pretty rough once again and we shouldn't delude ourselves otherwise.

Pitching has been basically horshit this entire spring.

He looks as bad as Fulmer.

Absolutely nothing wrong with loyalty especially in this day and age, but loyalty WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY brings you the issues you see with the White Sox. Professional sports is a results business, people are judged on that, for better or worse, that's the reality of things. The "results" of the White Sox have been far less than satisfactory wouldn't you agree? Shouldn't the people in charge who are being well paid have some measure of accountability in that?

Not since early September 2012 I'd say.

You know the old saying, "to make money you have to spend money..." Obviously the White Sox haven't learned that axiom.

Fulmer has had a brutal spring and so has Frare.

Best news I've seen in weeks was his home run. Better sign him now to an extension Kenny while you still have all that money! (sarcasm implied)

JR's son Michael is now basically running the Bulls and has expressed no desire (so far) in having anything to do with the White Sox. I have never heard or read anything about any other family members expressing any interest in keeping the Sox to this point.

Balta it's my understanding from talking to people who know more about this than I do, that JR has the sole right to sell to whomever he wishes if he ever decided to do it. The other shareholders can offer opinions, can disagree but they have zero power is stopping a sale to whomever JR wishes to sell to in this example. It is also specifically written into JR's contract that he and he alone has the say in the day to day running of the operations of the club. I don't believe the others can have a vote of no-confidence for wont of a better word and remove him, it's pretty much ironclad. They gave up all rights in how the team is run decades ago. It's about as good of a deal as you can possibly get in this situation. I have heard in the past some of the minority owners and in fact JR's wife has wanted him to sell in the past but he refused to do so.

JR has publicly said many time he advises his family to sell the Sox and keep the Bulls.

Not many guys left now off that 1959 team, not a bad hitter in two stints with the Sox. Some of his moments with the club are listed here: January 20, 1965 - Another big deal pulled off by Sox G.M. Ed Short which kept the franchise’s streak of winning seasons going. The Sox were part of a three team trade with the Indians and Athletics. When all was said and done, the Sox parted with outfielders Jim Landis and Mike Hershberger, pitcher Fred Talbot and catcher Cam Carreon. In return they got back power hitting catcher Johnny Romano, pitcher Tommy John and outfielder Tommie Agee. Agee would be named Rookie of the Year in 1966 becoming the first Sox player ever with 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases in a season; John would be part of the Sox brilliant starting rotation, making the All Star team for the first time in 1968. Romano wasn’t a slouch either in his second stint with the club, banging out 33 home runs in two seasons before being traded. April 19, 1965 – White Sox manager Al Lopez tied the record when he used five pinch hitters in the seventh inning of what turned out to be a 7-2 win over the Orioles at Comiskey Park. The Sox trailed 3-2 when Lopez began his maneuvering. By the time the inning was over he used Don Buford, Danny Cater, Johnny Romano, Dave Nicholson and Gary Peters as pinch hitters with Romano and Peters both hitting singles and driving in runs.Peters’ hit would give the Sox the lead for good. Lopez first used five pinch hitters in an inning on May 18, 1957 at Baltimore. September 25, 1965 - The Sox set the franchise record by hitting their 15th consecutive solo home run. The streak started at Baltimore on September 2 in the second game of a double header when Johnny Romano homered. The run continued until a game on this date was played in New York. Pitcher Tommy John hit the last home run in the streak. The breakdown saw Ken Berry with five solo home runs, Don Buford, Romano and Pete Ward with a pair each and John, Floyd Robinson, Bill “Moose” Skowron and Bill Voss with one solo home run. The Sox would tie this rather odd record in 2016. December 6, 1959 - In an effort to try to repeat as American League champs Bill Veeck and Hank Greenberg decided to make a series of moves to bring in hitters at the expense of some of the top young players in the Sox system. Veeck originally tried to get young stars like future Sox coach Orlando Cepeda from the Giants and Bill White from the Cardinals but was turned down. So he went in the only direction he felt he could. The first deal brought the Sox back outfielder “Minnie” Minoso at the cost of future All Star power hitting first baseman Norm Cash and future All Star power hitting catcher Johnny Romano. Cleveland also got John “Bubba” Phillips. Sox manager Al Lopez was quoted after the controversial deal as saying, “Some of us, like me, are not worried about next year because we might not be around then.”

Hard to pick between the two, that's like asking would you rather drown or be buried alive? They are both awful, but cutting them some slack, as others have pointed out, who is the constant here in both organizations?

I just wish Kenny would stop with the BS and simply go far, far away. He's an embarrassment.

I thought Merkin asked some pretty good questions... https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/rick-hahn-talks-white-sox-manny-machado-pursuit