Lip Man 1

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 20, 2017 -> 11:26 AM) It's OK to be pissed off and have a post like this. The team you describe would (no hyperbole) by far be the worst in baseball history. It'd be lucky to back into 40 victories. He's venting. Some fans like he and me still are upset we have to go through this right now. Some of us believe the unabashed losing is not going to be helpful to the prospects, either. Hopefully I'm wrong. But you have to admit, the owners do have it made through this popular rebuild. Everytime a salary is dumped, the fans are giddy cause we lose more and also gain can't miss prospects that someday will pay off. It's perfect for owners. They can have the lowest payroll ever, and make record profits and the fans are thrilled cause we lose more. It's really a unique time. Tanking wasn't always popular. I understand that however literally almost every single post contains conspiracy theories, inane comments and digs at JR. Look I'm not the biggest JR fan in the world, he's done some good things, he's done some things that have been extremely harmful to the franchise but I'm not willing to think he's tanking on purpose to increase his bank account, that's insane. He just gave 28 million to Robert for example. And the thought that Hahn is a secret Cub fan implying that he's out to destroy the Sox and help the Cubs is flat out insane. INSANE. That is going beyond venting which I completely understand. Maybe this guy is simply trying to get a reaction from other posters...if so, mission accomplished!

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 20, 2017 -> 05:30 PM) Avi is the King of Infield hits. Hasn't been killing the ball . Can't remember his last HR but I'd venture to say he has like 1 in the last close to 2 months. I think he's had three since the All Star break but he's also missed a ton of games to.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 20, 2017 -> 07:38 AM) The off season starts with Hahn trading Avi Garcia and Abreu for more prospects. This will be done in the name of a rebuild. I see it as more of a salary dump to get this team to have the lowest payroll in MLB. All this translates into more profits for JR. This leaves the team with the following lineup: 1B=Gillaspie, 2B=Moncada, SS=Anderson, 3B=Davidson, LF=L. Garcia, CF=Engle, RF=Delmonico, C=Smith. Starting Rotation Rodon, Shields, Lopez and Holland. (Hahn resigns Holland thinking that he'll have a rebound year) Bullpen= The same group who are in our present bullpen. After Rodon gets off to a good start Hahn will sign him to a contract extension. After the All Star break Hahn will then trade Rodon to the Cubs for more of their prospects. Nobody ever talks about this but Hahn is a life long Cubs fan. He never attended a White Sox game in his life until he started working for them. And finally for a job well done (Last place team with the lowest payroll=enormous profits) JR will reward Hahn with another contract extension, This may be one of the most ludicrous posts I've ever seen on any message board. If you honestly believe the stuff that you write, full of conspiracy theories and opinions that have no basis in fact, it may be time to seek professional help.

1B-Jose 2B-Moncada SS-Anderson 3B-Davidson LF-L.Garcia CF-Engel RF-A.Garcia C-Navarez DH-Delmonico SP: Rodon, Gonzales, Shields, Lopez, Giolito BULLPEN: Moe, Larry, Curly, Shemp, Curly Joe (In other words stiffs, re-tread's and has been's) Total wins: Between 66 and 70 if, IF they can stay relatively healthy which they didn't come close to doing this year.

QUOTE (Donaldo @ Aug 18, 2017 -> 07:52 PM) Former Sox and Bears broadcaster Joe McConnell was elected to the Indiana Broadcast Pioneers Hall of Fame earlier this month. McConnell For those interested here is my interview with Joe: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...=11&id=3734

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 16, 2017 -> 11:30 PM) Isn't there some guys in AAA that will never make it that they could bring up that may not get shelled as bad? Probably not. Even on a rebuilding team Petricka sucks really, really bad.

Don't know much about this kid but he seems to have a good sense of what he's attempting to do anyway: https://www.milb.com/milb/news/chicago-whit...212/t-185364810 For those in the know, could this kid turn into a solid major league pitcher?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 16, 2017 -> 10:10 AM) White Sox yes, Bulls no. JR is a minority owner, and supposedly not even the biggest one of the ownership group when it comes to the White Sox. Over the years stories have speculated that he owns anywhere from 12% to as high as 30%. JR has never told anyone exactly how much he owns. He does however have in his contract that he runs the day to day operations, does not have to consult with the other owners on moves and can not be removed from that position unless the operation loses money consistently or he does something illegal. Also if he wishes to sell the team the other owners can not stop him unless of course they wish to buy it from him.

JR has consistently said, on Chicago Tonight in 2004, in stories in the Chicago Tribune two years ago and now in this story that he is not selling and intends to own the team until he passes away. He's not selling folks.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 14, 2017 -> 07:04 AM) 1) Clippard was just moved to Houston. Another salary dump. The recent trades with KC, Yankees and Tampa Bay were nothing but salary dumps. The team traded Dan Jennings to Tampa bay for absolutely nothing. We now have Bummer as our only lefty in the bullpen. And he can't get anybody out. 2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB. It's called a REBUILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY is that so hard to understand? They are SUPPOSED to be bad, historically bad, horrifically bad if at all possible. I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities, I get where you are coming from but this is the new reality, like it or not. Deal with it. And to answer the original question, real contention starts in 2020 in my opinion.

Not a lot of guys could handle a pitch like that on the outside corner and drive it the opposite way into the seats. Very impressive.

Sox pitchers tonight: Giolito: 5 innings, 4 hits, 0 runs, 2 walks, 7 strike outs Kopech: 7 innings, 4 hits, 1 unearned run, 1 walk, 11 strike outs Hansen: 6 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 2 walks, 12 strike outs Hansen now has something like 150 strike outs in about 115 innings of work.

More and more I'm swinging towards the notion that when (if) these kids come up and are good RR is not the guy to lead them to the next level. Scrubs or not, how stupid do you have to be to make these kind of base running blunders and why isn't the staff able (so far) to put a stop to it. I guess that's why the vast majority of the guys on the roster right now are Triple A cannon fodder. Little actual baseball sense.

Dunning allowed one run and struck out 11 in seven innings tonight. This kid (along with Hansen) have looked VERY impressive.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 02:51 PM) The Dodgers playoff choke job is gonna be even more epic this season Let's hope not. They can beat the Cubs.

QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 10:14 AM) Awaiting Lipman's reply that attendance doesn't matter ... It does matter. Just not to the extent that it used to say back in 1957 or 1965 or 1977 or 1984.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 04:22 PM) I loved how you glossed over Howry and Foulke contributions and glossed right over the 2000 division title, they contributed mightily.in order to b**** about a division they weren't going to win anyway. Look at Alvarez's performance in SF. He had a bad rest of the season. Also of note, the next season after you wrote this claiming the league had "caught up " to Foulke, he had a great year and led the league in saves. And although you mentioned the Jaime Navarro disaster, you overlooked the trade of Navarro for Eldred and Valentin. I loved how you nit / pick and miss the overall point of the exercise because it apparently doesn't fit with your view of the situation. Who said they weren't going to win that division? How do you know?? Did you have the ability for see into the future? If so why aren't you a millionaire? LOL. They were 3 1/2 game out. Cleveland had lost 10 of 14. ANYTHING was possible. You simply don't know and neither do I. What IS known is they weren't six out, or 10 out or 12 out were they? I didn't "gloss" over Howry or Foulke or their contributions. Gave them full credit for the help they did. They were the only guys who made an impact at all in the deal. As far as Navarro, trading him did nothing to mitigate the impact of the WFT on their attendance (which coming so soon after the labor impasse badly hurt attendance for several years) or on the perception of the organization / franchise locally or nationally. That was a few years after the fact. Had ZERO impact on things at the time. I was looking at the impact of that deal on the franchise five years after the fact and it was significant primarily OFF the field which was the focus of the story. Feel free to take the time to write a historical look back on it yourself if you feel my interpretation was so off base historically. I'd love to read it. Oh and you mention Foulke, in that 2000 ALDS that you say I overlooked (because it had nothing to do with the story as I said of the impact / perception of the trade) he pitched 2.1 innings, allowed three runs, walked two and allowed two home runs.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) If JR had done it right when the new stadium was built we wouldn't be complaining about the attendance and stadium. All he had to do was build a nice stadium in a good location, which he didn't do. For what it's worth I think the next White Sox stadium will be built by the United Center when the present lease runs out. Sigh. Same old, same old...rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. I think the next stadium will be exactly in the same location when the lease runs out because they'll still be using THAT stadium. Absolutely nothing wrong with it after the roughly 70 million dollars in improvements over the years.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 05:52 PM) They can privately fund it. If the stadium gets the job done (it does) and has ease of access (does it get any easier?) There is no reason to waste tax dollars on a stadium. Agreed. If ownership or new ownership wants to build a new stadium at a different location that's all well and good as long as THEY pay for it (which frankly isn't likely to happen. I can think of only two cases where it did, Joe Robbie paid for and built the Dolphins stadium and Peter McGowan built the Giants baseball park.) If that is not going to happen I have a hard time thinking the city / state will pay for a new one when the old one is still perfectly fine. We're not talking about a 100 year old stadium are we?

Greg: Thank you. It took a lot of time to research, look through old video clips and so on. It was one of those stories that when I got into it, I really wanted to do it well and accurately.

Always nice to get a win anytime especially with this bunch.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 04:50 PM) You know what's funny, when this happened it was outrageous. Now it's accepted and pretty normal True, the Padres actually were the first team to dump everyone back in 1993 but the difference was the Sox were 3 1/2 back and Cleveland had lost 10 of 14 right before the trade with the Giants. I think that is what got everyone's attention.

Gonzales is the only one left now. Give Hahn credit, he worked with any team that would offer a decent return for Sox players. Well done in my opinion.

Five years after the deal I did a long, historical story on that day and the impact at that time on the franchise. Here is the link for any interested: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...y=2&id=1528

Nice post by Lillian. My own opinion of next year's team is quite simple. Play / acquire anyone who MAY be of some value in two years assuming the team has turned things around. Find out if any of those guys can contribute to a good team at the major league level in various ways. 2018 is about continuing to develop depth and talent, not wins and losses. Oh, and to get another very high draft pick.