Lip Man 1

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) If the White Sox had the advantage of the current playoff format, they definitely would have won at least one World Series title over that time period LIP is referring to. Heck, they SHOULD have by all rights won the 1994 World Series, the one that never happened. (Thanks, JR!) But as usual, we should still be loyal 11 years later, because, "2005!" And yet for some strange reason, ALMOST everyone here supports the idea of getting rid of Williams to let Rick Hahn run things, the same Rick Hahn who has shown us what exactly in terms of talent evaluation (other than the Adam Eaton trade) over his tenure? But logically, without KW to meddle/interfere like the villain in a Scooby Doo cartoon, we would have made the playoffs numerous times if Williams and JR just got out of the way and let Hahn do his job. It's hard for me to place a lot of blame on Rick yet because fairly or unfairly I simply don't know if he has a free hand to run things the way he wishes to. Hahn has talked about rebuilding the minor leagues and having "sustained" success and he did a very good job of beginning to cut out the dead weight in 2013-14. It appeared that his plan was taking shape. But then you have the almost 180 degree rotation to what the Sox did the off season before 2015 and it just makes you wonder. Those moves seemed to be a disconnect between what history showed he was doing and what he wanted to do to what actually happened. So honestly I don't know what to think right now. The only way to know for sure would be for Kenny to be completely cut out of the organization and then see what history shows after Hahn had complete control. Since that isn't in play, I think its reasonable to say the jury is still out on him. Mark

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) The Braves really were failures. Yankees, too, since that run in the mid to late 90's. Mid to late 90's Indians. All those great Mariners' teams. Twins making the playoffs 6 out of 9 seasons as a small market team that was almost relocated by MLB. We basically have had the same degree of success, if not more. Kenny Williams deserves another promotion, just for 2005. Well played sir! Mark

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 10:51 AM) Ok, but again the Indians havent won in like 60 plus years, Twins havent won since 91, Detroit since what, 84? Dont come in stumping success for these teams when they havent even grabbed the brass ring in decades. We all want consistent success. Can you read that? WE ALL WANT CONSISTENT SUCCESS. As white sox fans, we all know consistent success has been nonexistent and want it to change. But thanks for pointing out every chance you get that they dont have consistent success. Without you telling me every chance you get, I dont think i would know. Kyle Very happy to provide that service to you. We all do what we can! Mark

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) Nobody's talking about the Marlins or the past hundred years. You are acting as if the Twins of the '00s, the Tigers of the '00s and '10s and the Indians of the '90s were much more successful than the Sox since the '90s. And the fact of the matter is none of those teams won a World Series. Making the playoffs doesn't mean s*** unless you win it all. Winning a World Series trumps everything. Would you trade the '05 World Series for the Tigers 2 appearances and a couple additional playoff appearances? I highly doubt it. Your last point is very interesting. At the time I was among those who felt that if the Sox won the World Series and then sucked for the next ten years it would be worth it. Having (ironically) basically gone through that exact scenario, now I really wonder. The Sox from 1951-1967 were one of the best, most stable franchises in all of MLB. 17 straight winning seasons, seven of them with 90+ wins yet they only made the World Series once and lost it. To be perfectly honest with you if the devil offered me that scenario today I might very well take it...at least I'd see very good baseball and know that more than likely when the season was done the team was going to win a lot more games then they lost. I'd have to think hard about that one. And one final point, you're chances of winning the World Series are zero if you don't even make the playoffs. Those teams you mentioned at least had a shot to do so by making it. I'd gladly take my chances of the Sox not winning it if at least they could get there to try. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) tasty irony. Be more than happy to, in fact I'd LOVE TO. Let me know when the Sox provide me a real reason to do so OK? Mark

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) It's almost as if you enjoy the Sox doing poorly. Right, I've been a fan for 55 seasons. I must be a masochist. LOL. Try something else please. Mark

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 10:07 AM) Who is missing from that group? I don't know, maybe the only Central Division team other than the Royals to win a World Series in your given time frames. Great! Eleven years ago. Four World Series appearances in the last 100 YEARS. Hey we're TOTALLY successful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's put it another way, the Miami Marlins have won two World Series in a shorter period of time. Mark

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 10:12 PM) The 2013 Indians made the WC because they absolutely dominated the Sox that year. They went like 15-4 or something. Not sure why the Sox play poorly against division opponents not named the Twins. I think it was actually 17-2. Mark

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 08:36 AM) Ummm they traded 6. None of the above crazy spending happens without Cabrera, which necessitated gutting their system at the time And by "gutting" their farm system it appears they went to the World Series twice and the playoffs what four times in the last eight years? I'd take that in a New York minute. They took their turn dominating the division much like the Indians in the 90's and the Twins in the 00's and maybe the Royals right now. Geez...I wonder who is missing from that group? Mark

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) Guy$, Guy$, Guy$ ... Money talks. Flash 5 million or 6 million at Leyland and he'll f***ing come back. Do it now. 3 mill for the rest of this season; 2 years 10 million dollar deal to follow. Just for him to turn the organization around. He will take the money; they all do. If he won't do it, flash a bit more at LaRussa. 4 mill the rest of this season and two years 14 million contract. it's THAT important. Sorry both guys are done with the managing game. Not going to happen, you can flash them 10 million. Tony has complete control of the D-backs and is working with his old friend and mentor Roland Hemond. He isn't going anywhere. Leyland is well into his 70's I think and still has issues with JR over Gene Lamont's firing. Just not in the cards. Mark

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 07:06 PM) If Maddon wasn't available a year and a half ago, Renteria would probably still be managing the Cubs. Absolutely. He did pretty well given the circumstances. But the difference was that when the Cubs had an opportunity to 'upgrade' their situation they did it. Loyalty be damned. And I think Renteria had two years remaining on his deal. Mark

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 07:45 PM) The problem is the lack of player talent, not the guy who fills out the lineup card. The answer is obviously both. Mark

There once was a time when the White Sox were an exciting team with a revived enthusiastic fan base and some of the best players in the league. Now isn't one of those times but that was the case on June 4, 1972 before over 52 thousand at Comiskey Park. It will be forever known as "the Chili Dog Game". Cue Dick Allen in the bottom of the 9th inning with the Sox down two runs and looking to sweep a double header from the Yankees. On a side note, I was sitting in the lower deck right center field when this took place. Still an amazing moment. Announcers: Future Sox broadcaster Frank Messer and Phil Rizzuto. (Rizzuto's reaction was priceless!!!!) Courtesy: WMCA / Yankees Radio Network http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2016/06/t...chili-dog-game/ Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 04:03 PM) My guess it that there is probably a nugget of truth there, don't forget there were times where Kenny wanted to fire Ozzie and Greg Walker, and couldn't. It also isn't unprecidented when you look at what happened with Anahiem last year. Agreed. On a decision of that nature JR has to give his blessing. For example he OK'd letting go Tony LaRussa (and has admitted publicly many times afterwards that was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as owner. The others? OK'ing the trade of Jerry Koosman and hiring Hawk as G.M.) Mark

Depends... On the off chance there is a new owner next year, it could be an actual person with experience at the big league level who has had some success. If not it'll be another inexperienced, learn on-the-job- former White Sox player because JR loves loyalty and hates paying huge money for top head coaches / managers. Jim Thome, Aaron Rowand, maybe Paul Konerko COME ON DOWN!!!!!!!!!! And the Sox haven't hired a manager with previous managerial experience at the big league level since Jeff Torborg in 1989. Think about that one for a second or two. Mark

Sox have now scored three runs or less in 49% of their games this year. 28 of 57. ------ And that's a very valid point about player development but what the hell else are they supposed to try? They've brought in hundreds of players the last decade. How has that worked out? It's simply a case of trying something different because what they've been doing has been a failure. The REAL solution is for JR to s***can most of his baseball side front office and bring in the best people, pay them whatever they want from top organizations and stay the hell out of the way. But that's a pipedream. Mark

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) Just say NO to Renteria. Give me Leyland. Go beg him for gawdsakes. JR basically did that after Bevington was let go. Met with him personally and offered him the job. He said no. Partly because of the way the Sox treated his friend Gene Lamont. That door closed a long time ago. Mark

Nine straight divisional losses. 3-12 against everyone in the division not named Minnesota. Total, complete garbage. I’m actually at the point now where I’m surprised that they’ve actually won a game. I’m trying to figure out if this collapse under Robin is worse than the one in September 2012. I don’t think it is (yet) because that team was so close to the finish line. This one when it started, well you still had 80% of the season to go. Given the schedule, if this continues for another two weeks, I’d hope the Sox front office starts thinking about who they can sell off for prospects. Don’t make the same mistake they did last year at the deadline. “But…but we’re in CONTENTION!!” Yea, right. LOL. And the beat(ings) goes on. Mark

As the Sox get ready to play another game against a divisional opponent thought you'd like to know one of their biggest issues: Record vs. Divisional Opponents: 2015; 32-44 2014; 33-43 2013; 26-50 2012; 37-35 2011; 32-40 2010; 32-40 2009; 34-38 2008; 44-29 Can't beat teams in your division? You're not going anyplace but home after the regular season. The 'big money', 'big market' White Sox can't beat the Kansas City and Cleveland's of the world. Two winning records vs. division in the last eight years. Mark

Wouldn't have happened if Robin actually used a guy who had experience playing in center field with Jackson out. But nope can't do that...LOL. Mark

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:03 PM) Yeah because they've traded so many young studs away..... With respect that's not the point, they probably didn't. What is a valid point is the 27 million they are going to owe a pitcher in his mid 30's with a lot of wear on his arm. The Yankees can afford that type of gamble. The Sox can't because they either can't or won't spend the additional money then to make up for it if he's terrible. Mark

Forgot to mention (it's probably not a surprise) the Sox get shut down by a winless mediocre pitcher with an ERA of almost five. He gives them two runs total. Nice job boys! Don't stop now!! Mark

The Sox are just getting out from under the anchor of Danks' bad deal and now this. Even with S.D. paying a lot the Sox still now owe 27 million from what I read. For a mid 30's pitcher probably on the downward track. That's the way to build a "consistent" winner in my book! (sarcasm implied) Kenny strikes again. Mark

Coming up on almost a month next week since that night in Texas. Nothing has really changed. Me thinks this is the "real" White Sox team. Unfortunately it doesn't look good. I'm out of ideas myself, that's for those who make the big bucks in the organization. All I know is that when Chris Sale (who has a losing career record against both K.C. and Cleveland...don't know about Detroit) stops winning games especially in the division, you're in serious trouble. Mark

So would I but it hasn't really happened on a consistent basis since at least 2012. Mark