SCCWS

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 07:30 AM) Actually come to think of it, I've defended cubs here more than most, but there's no way you trade Sale and Abreu for the names listed in the op. The answer then should be the Sox. Not necessarily. Teams can have several great players but the overall strength of the lineup is the importatnt thing. we have sale and abreu having great seasons but the team is still bad. But also , you have to factor in doing it versus potential. The Sox have 3 young players in Sale, Q and Abreu doing it and Avi and Eaton having pretty good showings . I look at the Red Sox and their 2 elite young players ( Bradley and Bogaerts) going into this year. Understanding both played key positions SS and CF but both had poor seasons

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 01:04 AM) I went with the 1st one. All I'm asking for is a 5 game improvement. Way I see it is even with an average pen we're looking at at least a 10 game improvement overall this year.....A "10 game improvement" with a whole lot of money to spend leads me to believe they're heading in the right direction. I don't agree. They were terrible last season so they really should have improved this season. Add to that the fact that last season they unloaded some veteran pitching at the trade deadline that they didn't do this season. I think you have to look at positional development over wins/losses. The total failure of the bullpen makes this season look worse record-wise than what it is. I feel they took a step up especially with Abreu but there are still a bunch of holes.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) Who cares?? Like others have said, there's no correlation between attendance and salary. EDIT- BTW, Well done on the interview. I'm rooting for the kid. www.hardballtimes.com/how-are-wins-attendance-and-payroll-all-related The attached, using data from 2000-2011, concludes there is a major correlation between payroll and attendance.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 09:18 PM) Anyone hear any names in return? I seen Hahn's comments about evaluating but I'd imaging they've been doing that Sometimes these trades are based on performance. If Gordon produces X or above Sox get a lousy player. If Gordon doesn't produce above X Sox get a lousier player.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 12:28 AM) They need pitching. Dank's value is very low so even if the Angel's took him, we would get little in return. You basically get the salary dump.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 16, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) 1901. 1900 they were the Saint Paul Saints. I can see the Havana White Sox within a few years.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 06:47 PM) I just feel bad for Flowers but especially Jose Quintana. He pitched his heart out and didn't deserve that terrible fate of 4 earned runs after entering the inning with a shutout. It seems he just completely comes undone this year whenever something bad happens in an inning, whether it's an error but also as things unfolded today...you just KNEW that big hit was coming as soon as you saw Belisario entering the game. Hopefully this play, the one in the Reds/Marlins game....and the earlier one where a forceout was accidentally reversed because the catcher was blocking the plate even without a tag play being on. I thought Beli should have been cut loose a few weeks ago. Having said that, his pitch to a guy hitting .330 was on the outside corner that he dinked into leftfield. Giants had a few cheap hits off Quintana that inning as well. Just a lucky inning for them saved by a half-ass call.

One statistic jumps out at me. For his career, batters hit .271 against him. That is very high for a relief pitcher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 07:38 PM) (Rimshot) I say we replace RV w John Farrell. 2 seasons managing Toronto and 2-- 4th place finishes w a .475 percentage. Red Sox trade for him and he goes 97-65 and wins the World Series. Brings back the same team minus Ellsbury and the team totally collapses. Does that resume make him a good or bad manager????

Bringing up Danks is the right move. He is coming up after having solid numbers at AAA. If he fails to impress again, then that clars up one question for next year. Cut him loose. If he plays well then he goes into spring as the 4th outfielder or 3rd depending on what happens in left.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 01:35 AM) It doesn't matter....as long as they keep Eaton/Avisail/Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Ramirez healthy. They've all proven they can play...and hopefully Avisail can keep building on his results in Charlotte with the Sox (and soon), where he's just been murdering the ball for a week or so. There's no reason to keep him down much longer, other than having to clear out the major league roster (DeAza, specifically). The next question mark is what happens with Flowers and Viciedo...they still have 45 games left to set the tone for next year or end up being replaced or eminently replaceable. i agree except for Avisail. He is a very key component but the jury is still out. The Sox need another 3-5 type hitter in the lineup. At this point, offensive production is questionable next year from C-3B-2B-DH-LF. They seem to have good contact hitters in Eaton and Gillaspie and Alexei has been steady. They need a big bat to protect Abreu. Avisail has shown that he could be part of the solution. But he could also be another Viciedo. Hopefully he gets back soon and gives us hope for one problem solved for next year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 11:57 AM) 81/82 is what I saw. I think Dunn is the acting pitching coach when Coop is out. I assume he decided he was as good as anyone else in the pen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 11:57 AM) 81/82 is what I saw. I think Dunn is the acting pitching coach when Coop is out. I assume he decided he was as good as anyone else in the pen.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 06:46 PM) Ok, you're saying that his RESULTS were mediocre. I can accept that. But, I would note that he PITCHED substantially better. The other part that many fans ignore is the mental makeup. When Reed was traded , some posters said anyone can close. That is not true. As good a set-up man Matt Thornton was he had problems closing. Obviously some of that may be attributed to being a lefty. We don't know yet if Jones has the mental makeup to close.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 04:15 PM) His ERA was the ONLY thing that got worse last year, literally all of his peripherals improved substantially. He struck out more guys, walked fewer, and his HR rate stayed essentially the same (0.50 per nine to 0.58 per nine) despite his HR/FB normalizing to league average (~6% to ~9%). His groundball rate even went up. His fWAR actually doubled. The ERA increase can be almost entirely attributed to a huge swing in strand rate (85% all the way down to 62%), which, since he's a reliever and always throws from the stretch, is more likely attributable to luck/run sequencing than it would be if he was a starter. With all due respect, friend: What are you looking at? I'll try and simplify it. Jones was an average reliever last year. If you take his ERA-Opp BA--WAR he was not above average. I said he had a good year w strikeouts but then allowed batters to hit .247. That is high when you consider Reed 's was .215. Regardless of the reason, look at the ERA of the top 25 AL relief pitchers and a 4+ ERA is on the high not the low side. In his rookie year his ERA was 2.39.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 09:12 AM) Please explain to me how Nate Jones was mediocre last year. His ERA was over 4 compared to 2.50 his rookie season. Now some people don't like ERA for relievers. How about opp batting avg??? they hit .247 against him compared to Reed .215. Look at the top 25 relievers and most have BA against in low .200 range. Do you like War??? It dropped from 2.5 to .5. Jones is a strike out reliever who gives up hits. That is mediocre. That is last year. He was better his first year.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 05:58 PM) This thread blows. You don't spend a ton of money on a bullpen for a rebuilding team. You don't trade away prospects from a rebuilding team to get veteran bullpen arms. Relief pitchers have the most erratic results from year to year of any players. The bullpen as constructed with Jones and Lindstom not getting injured and Belisario and Shields simply pitching similarly to last year and the rest of their careers, the bullpen is just fine. If you are going to blame Rick Hahn for veteran relievers not pitching up to their historical numbers or getting injured then by the same "logic" you also have to credit Hahn for everything Jose Abreu has done. Abreu hasn't hit one home run this year, Hahn hit them. P.S.- Our bullpen is 12th best in the AL. Our starters are also 12th best. Can there be a separate forum on this site just for posters who don't say dumb s***? Belisario is pitching very similiar to last year. I tend to ignore era and w/l for relievers. Last year batters hit .274 off him and this year it is .284. Last year his WHIP was 1.47 and it is 1.38 this year. That is because his walks are down this year. He was mediocre last year so I am not sure what you expected this year. Jones had mediocre numbers as well last year. Lindstom has a career .274 BA against him. That is poor for a reliver.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 06:51 PM) Well, FWIW, if Jones didn't get hurt we'd have Jones, Petricka, and Putnam as 3 quality guys to come from the farm. FIRE THIGPEN.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 3, 2014 -> 01:43 AM) I would count tonight's loss to the Twins as another game blown by the bad managing of Robin Ventura. What is Bellisario doing coming in to start the 8th inning at home with a two run lead? If he cannot come in at home to start the 8th w a 2 run lead, why the hell is he on the roster???? You should be pointing the finger at Hahn for having him on the roster.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 08:05 AM) We have a top 2 candidate for the Cy Young. They dont. We have a top 2 candidate for the MVP. They dont. /thread? I disagree. I get to watch the Red Sox all year living in New England. We clearly have 3 guys in Quintana, Sale and Abreu much better than anyone they have. but 3 guys out of 25 does not make it a better team. They now have a much better outfield than we have. Hopefully we get another bat and Garcia turns in to a solid player. They have 2 quality young catchers and probably the best DH in the league. We go into next year w questions in both spots. We are better at 1st and SS and they are better at 2B and 3rd is probably a draw. Their bullpen is much better. their young pitchers are in the rotation and I think have more potential than ours so far. They also have a very good AAA team loaded w talent both pitching and hitting. I think the Lester trade is very suspicious. A guy plays his whole career in Boston, gets traded and before he leaves says he loves Boston and wants to return. Obviously media speculation is heavy that this was a win-win. Red Sox got a big bat, Lester gets another WS shot and they all meet back up next year. The lack of any negative comments from guys like Pedroia, Ortiz etc further fuels the flames. Obviously Rodon is a wildcard but they may also have a stud somewhere in their farm.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 05:12 PM) Then they get nothing out of him, just like they were going to get now. If they could have gotten something for him, he wouldn't be here. You don't know that. Maybe the "something" they could have gotten for him was less than what Hahn wanted. With the movement of pitchers today, it is reasonable to think hahn got offers but wanted more. Hopefully Danks can contribute in the rotation next year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 05:06 PM) This is a real good post, and exactly how Rick Hahn has to be thinking. Should he have moved Danks if he got a good offer? Yes. Did he have to move him? Absolutely not. With the payroll flexibility that they have, there is no reason for the Sox to force a deal just for the sake of making a deal. Bring Danks back, you can still deal him over the winter, when all teams would have a chance to bid on him. You can also hope for improvement over the winter, and see if as his contract bleeds away, that another team might have interest. With the low payroll, the Sox have room to store his deal. I agree also except you left out one scenario. Danks tanks the rest of this year so the Sox are stuck w him even as a back of rotation guy w little value. Time will tell.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2014 -> 03:29 PM) But the rest of their moves they acquired a bunch of Win now players without the pitching staff do come close to doing so Boston media thinks Lester is returning to Boston. Hopefully they are wrong but the week leading up to the trade smells rotten.

Red Sox traded Felix Doubront to Cubs for PTBNL

I am amazed the Red Sox would "rent" Lester but where there is smoke there is fire. I would have to guess Lester would be a more attractive add than Danks---- all things considered. I would think the Red Sox would not want Lester going to AL East though.