Bigsoxhurt35

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) I assume that the Red Sox wouldn't WANT to trade both JBJ and Benintendi, but they do have Holt who can play the OF everyday. Plus they could sign a Reddick or Cespedes, or could get a Melky back in a bigger trade involving Sale. Sale and Melky JBJ, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech and Rodriguez Kicking around this idea of Sale to Boston, I've thought about this including Melky in the deal to give them an OFer.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) Now if only he could play every day, you might have a argument. A great pitcher can completely dominate a game like a great QB can dominate a game. They both can carry their teams. s*** just look at that Royals Giants World Series with MadBum.

This is gratifying! hahaha. Now it begins

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 08:40 PM) This is not true. Even Trout isn't worth a franchise QB. Baseball players simply do not have the same degree of impact individually. Tell that to Madison Bumgarner in the playoffs

one more out boys

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 08:23 PM) The Red Sawks meatball fans: "We could have had Sale for prospects! Now Big Papi doesn't retire with a ring!" just dealing with those clowns on twitter will make this even better

sweep of boston would be so sweet to see because that whole fan base is a big bad of AIDS

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but let me break it down if it is. The Sox hold a top 3 pitcher in all of the game for 3 years @ $38M (last 2 are team options which increases value in case of injury). If Chris Sale were a free agent this winter, he'd likely sign a 7 or 8 year deal worth with an AAV north of $30M. Think about that. The Sox also hold a top 30 pitcher in the game (I tend to think he is better than that, but going conservative) for the next 4 years at $37.85M (last 2 are again team options). If Jose Quintana were a free agent this winter, he'd likely sign at least a 5 year deal worth no less than $100M (AAV of $20M), which again, is probably conservative. Think about that. The best free agent SP this winter are, in no particular order: Andrew Casher, Rich Hill, Jeremy Hellickson, Colby Lewis, Ivan Nova, and Edinson Volquez. The next tier is Brett Anderson, Bartolo Colon, RA Dicky, Doug Fister, Jake Peavy and Jered Weaver. Those are the top arms available, and the best one is maybe a #3 starter. These dudes are about to get PAID. Think about that. The Sox are in an absolutely wonderful position. Yes, it probably makes sense to trade these guys and start this rebuild. But they don't HAVE TO trade them. The Sox can sit back and ask for the moon, and they should. If you don't get what you want, you keep these guys who aren't breaking the bank and who's values are not going to diminish. Maybe no one will pay what it takes to get a Chris Sale - I mean when has a legitimate ace signed for 3 years at a 1/3 of what he'd get on the open market on an AAV-basis ever been traded? Its never happened. If you have to hold on to Sale for another year because the offers aren't what you want, you do that. That is without even mentioning their other extremely valuable assets in Adam Eaton and Carlos Rodon. The Sox are in a very unique position. I understand why some don't have faith that this front office has what it takes to execute this correctly. But this is the same front office that has given us each and every one of these assets. The fact that Sale and Quintana weren't traded last July when the market seemed primed was in all liklihood because they are asking for the moon. Be patient - the Sox absolutely NEED to hit home runs with these trades. The time will come, and hopefully when it does, it is because the Sox finally got what they are asking for, and not because they settled. Chris Sale's value due to his contract is the equivalent to a franchise QB on a cheap deal in the NFL. It's sky high. With what David Price is making and bombing in the playoffs, Sale is absolutely worth JBJ(or some young impact bat)+++. Quintana isn't that far behind him in my opinion. This off-season could re-shape this organization for the next 5-6 seasons if they play their cards right.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Oct 9, 2016 -> 01:22 AM) No chance they offer Betts. I've already mentioned the problems with JBJ but there's no way they would include Benintendi with him because that would leave 2 holes in their OF. If you ask for JBJ (major league starter for them) and Moncada they are going to put up a ton of resistance to give up more than a Kopech or Vazquez beyond the first 2. Just ask for all their prospects (Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, and maybe Vazquez like you mentioned) and be done with it. The only way it would make sense to keep Quintana is if the team re-signs Frazier to be a 1B after next season. Lineup going into 2018 could look something like this: LF - FA/Cabrera?/Saladino?/Collins? CF - Benintendi RF - Eaton 3B - Devers SS - Anderson 2B - Moncada 1B - Frazier DH - Abreu C - Vazquez Util - Saladino (super utility and plays LF when Collins is catching) C - Collins (backup C but plays most days in LF) Q Rodon FA 2 of Gonzalez/Hansen/Kopech/Fulmer/Adams/2017 #1 Draft Pick Rotation would have a few more holes though. That has the potential to be a really nice lineup. We'd probably need to sign a #3 ish starter in FA. I think in 2019 we could make a run at the division/wild card with that lineup. Agree that Betts is unlikely. I thought I said so. But if another starter gets bombed and they're swept, you'll see panic in Boston this off-season. Also don't sleep on the Yankees but will have to give up Gary Sanchez.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 8, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) Lol, Porcello will never make the Red Sox say "nah, don't need Sale" Ever ever ever I know right? LOL I think these pitching woes will do the opposite and make them even more desperate and then add in the Yankees being involved? Who knows what could happen. I think Sale is a near certainty to be dealt. Just have that feeling. I thought Boston or someone would say screw it at the deadline but that didn't happen.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 8, 2016 -> 09:39 AM) No they cannot. Agreed. You cannot fail this trade. Boston, in my opinion, is still the best match. I'd be perfectly fine with JBJ starting the deal. JBJ, Moncada, Kopech, Devers and Vazquez would work for me. In this type of deal, you need to get one MLB ready player to start the package. I'd love Betts back in the deal but I don't see them doing that but they may get desperate and feel they can plug in someone else. If they did include Betts, how many players would you get back? 3-4 as opposed to 4-5 if he's not in it? Betts, Moncada, Devers and Kopech would be a dream. Maybe I'm way off on the package I'm just throwing s*** out there so to speak. Question is if Sale got dealt and ya got back a combination of Betts or JBJ, and 3-5 of Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, etc., would that be enough to keep Quintana?

This has to make you really appreciate how good MadBum is. He's so dominant in the postseason. As for the package for either Sale or Q. It's going to be the same and not going to be brought down because I called it months ago that Boston's SP isn't good enough and that Sale will be in Boston in 3 months. Moncada will absolutely be in the package for Sale. Benintendi will headline the Q one if Sale isn't dealt. I want Kopech and Devers in those deals as well.

I'm for the rebuild but if the Sox want to compete then they need to do whatever it takes to sign him if they want to compete with this roster but they'd need to make more additions. Jerry won't shell out the money nor do I believe Cespedes would come to the south side, so it's likely a moot point. But let's just think about a Cespedes addition for the sake of argument for competing. Cespedes addition along with other additions: Eaton-RF Cabrera-DH Abreu-1B Cespedes-LF Frazier-3B Anderson-SS Lawrie-2B Catcher: Free agent catcher Wieters or Lucroy? I know Hahn liked Castro in the past but I don't think he's much of an upgrade CF:Tilson or bring back Jackson? Rotation Sale Quintana Shields (needing a bounce back season from him is big but I don't see it) Rodon Fulmer (is he ready?) Bullpen Free agent or trade addition Petricka Putnam Burdi LHP free agent or trade Jones Robertson That's a lot of money Jerry would need to spend to make this team a legit playoff contender. I don't see it along with guys bouncing back. I just did this on a whim so flame away.

That's a fireable offense by Buck. I'm sorry. I'd fire his ass.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 07:32 AM) Class to the end. He was in a situation no one would have succeeded. The holy triumvirate of RH,KW and JR know this, that's why all the "loyalty". Hopefully they will strengthen the roster to where they will win more. I'm OK with Renteria, but Paul Sullivan isn't very impressed. I thought they should've at least completed an interview process and do their due diligence and see what other surprise managers, if any, hit the market. But I like Renteria and hope they nail the bench coach and hitting coach.

If we're ever in that situation, I hope Rick Renteria watched this and took notes HA!

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:33 PM) Look at Sox prospects/young players (position players) before Severson got here and after he got here. Guys like Anderson, Thompson. Look at how Eaton has gotten better each year under him and look at the minors and how better position players are doing here. Why are they tuning him out then? That seems like a new rumor to me. Just curious.

Can't wait to discuss some names in the coming months. Hopefully we got a good prospect to fall to us due to some teams reaching on players or not wanting to risk trying to sign some of these guys.

So what are some replacements for Stevenson? One could be Raul Ibanez. They loved him in KC IIRC.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:53 PM) Taking our time with Collins doesn't involve starting him at AA. Start him at A ball Winston Salem again, and let him have a couple of more months in A ball before making the decision to push him to AA. Ok that's fine too. I just used AA as a starting point since he was at A for awhile. He can start there again and I'd be completely fine with it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:51 PM) The Yankees being involved in a Sale deal will be the best thing that could ever happen to the Sox if a Sale deal is going to happen. Either we will clean off their top prospect list, or we get Boston to push in a couple of guys they don't want to in order to top the Yankees. It is a win-win. Oh definitely and I'd bet $100 they will be in on Sale because there were rumors around the deadline that they would be in on him this off-season. I haven't looked at their prospects very much.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:32 PM) I can get on board with that. I would probably ask for the first deal minus Vazquez and plus Moncada but potentially settle for something like what you have listed. That fills two huge holes (CF and 3B) that would be extremely difficult to fill within the organization at this time. I guess you take the great framing and defense with Vazquez and hope he figures how to hit with 2-3 years of being the every day catcher. Collins would be the backup plan for catcher and I'm sure we could find him another position if Vazquez worked out (try him in LF early in his career and if it doesn't work out 1B/DH if Abreu leaves after his contract). I really think they won't move Moncada because of the investment in him but who knows when it comes down to pulling the trigger on Sale or Quintana. I want to take our time with Collins. Let him start at AA next year and work his way through the system, especially if we rebuild. There's no longer a reason to push guys faster through the system if we're rebuilding. I do think Collins could be up next year at some point. Next year will be really fun for me if we rebuild and there's a ton of prospects to follow and watch debut. I'm just not sure if only moving Sale is good enough to push this team into the playoffs. This free agent market sucks, so there's not a ton of options to chose from to help fill some holes. If you only moved Sale and got Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Rodriguez and Vazquez, is that enough to propel this team into contention moving forward for years to come? I'm not so sure because you're banking on prospects working out which most of the time they don't in these types of trades. I'm still trying to figure out if Hahn is trying to include JBJ in the deal as well and what that would do to the deal. I thought I read somewhere they wanted JBJ or Betts which isn't happening most likely let alone midseason.

I'd love to steal away Omar from Detroit as bench coach. Not sure what his title with them is and if it's possible. I just have dreams about Vizquel working with Tim Anderson 24/7 like he did with Iglesias. I do want some fresh faces in here on this staff, especially the hitting coach and bench coach. Too much underachieving to keep most of this staff.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 06:26 PM) Devers is the guy they should target. He should be ready by 2018. Then if they still want Frazier they can sign him to be a 1B and move Abreu's bad defense to DH. Devers fills the hole at 3B and Benintendi can take over CF which keeps Eaton's ++ defense in RF. I said earlier a trade of Sale to Boston for Benintendi, Kopeck, Devers, Vazquez, and one more probably does it for me. I really want Moncada but I'm not sure they do it. Now I do wonder if CWS stick to wanting Betts or Bradley in the deal and expand the trade to include Melky to help the loss of one of those two. It's going to be fun debating and creating mocks for these trades. Or I at least have fun with these. I could see a mega deal involving Sale, Melky and Robertson (to help dump his contract combined with Kimbrel's struggles) for JBJ, Moncada or Benintendi, Kopeck, Devers, Vasquez, Rodriguez, Swihart. That's crazy but I could see a mega deal like that happening if Boston fizzles in the playoffs and I hope they do.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) Frazier hit .169 with RISP and .202 with men on base and still drove in 98. You have to figure a bit of a bounce back next season. I really think he'll bounce back. Now, he's not hitting .330 or anything but I could see him back around .260-.280 and 5-10 more doubles. His double total was really freaking low the first half. The key to this lineup was Abreu's struggles. He was much better the second half and should be fine to start next season. But I'm hoping they do a complete rebuild and ship all of these players out and have a ton of young promising prospects. Don't sleep on NYY. They're going to be all over Sale. Joel Sherman kept writing about it around the trade deadline. They're a very splashy franchise and getting Sale would be right up their alley. Now, if they're involved then so will Boston. That's our best hope is to get those two to bid against each other.