Bigsoxhurt35

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) In my world where you recognize this is a dramatically undertalented team and unbelievably weak franchise, you trade Frazier for the best return you can get for him now, and you see if you get a 3b back in the deals where you trade Sale, Abreu, and/or Quintana. If you do not get a 3b back, you don't worry about it - you take the best deals you can for those guys and your franchise is rebuilding. In that case, you look to the FA market. Set yourself a budget of maybe $5 million and target someone like Aaron Hill or Mark Reynolds - someone who fills the position for you but that you have nothing invested in. If they have a good first half you consider trading them at the deadline - if that adds some minor talent to your organization somewhere great, if it does not then you've limited your expenses. Within a year or two, combining the young players returned from trades and your own draftees, you should begin having most of those positions filled with quality major leaguers. When you have taken your team from 6-7 starters filled by fringe major leaguers to 1-2 positions, then you go out and spend big in either trades or FA to fill those remaining positions and now you are loaded for bear. The goal while rebuilding is flipping vets for prospects. So ya, sign a Hill, Reynolds or Valencia and hope for the best.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) LDF? Walks like it talks like it...

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) I think that you need to keep one of those guys. The Sox rotation would suck for a long time with Rodon being the only one who's been proven to get out ML hitters. If we're rebuilding, I don't care. This free agent market sucks, so we need to maximize value now. If we can get what we want for both Sale and Quintana, then ship them out. This organization needs young impact prospects.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) What? They've been in the organization for a few months, there's no way of knowing if it's our best draft class ever. Exactly. That's like analysts grading NFL drafts the day after it's over. Yes these guys started off really well, but we'll see their progress next spring and into the season.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 12:56 PM) Frazier hit 40 homers, 21 doubles, and drove in 98 runs. How is that not a legit #4 or #5 hitter? Another thing to consider is who plays 3B if Frazier is allowed to walk after next season. The Sox would have to address that before they parted ways with him. I think that amount of doubles for him that early (9 first half?) is an anomoly also.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) I guess one of my biggest questions for planning for the future is how they plan to implement Collins. Realistically, I'm pretty confident he will be on the major league team no later than 2018, so will he be taking over at C or DH? Both are areas of weakness, so replacements are needed, but it's much easier to have a plan on attack for this offseason if you can envision where the team plans to use him. The Sox can go 1 of 3 ways: Go For It -See if Shields bounces back in spring training next year, if not, DFA him. No competitive team can trot him out there every 5th day and hope to play in October. -Sign Jason Castro to a 2 yr contract. Excellent defensive metrics again this season, great framing statistics, poor to mediocre offense which could be offset by the addition of a big bat. -Sign one of Encarnacion or Cespedes. You need another big bat in the middle, Encarnacion is the better bat, but he's older and doesnt provide any defensive value. Plus, if the Sox see Collins as DH, it would make more sense to go Cespedes and move Melky to DH, so you can slide Collins in to replace him after he leaves. For the sake of this exercise, I will say they sign Cespedes. -I think Carlos Gomez gets more offers than expected, so I think it would be beneficial to look at a guy like Rasmus for CF. The offensive numbers weren't really there this season, but he is a plus defender in the OF and with Eaton and Cespedes maning the other 2 positions, the OF defense would be massively upgraded. If he doesn't work out, you can always try with Tilson while Engel gets more seasoning in AAA. -Start Burdi in AAA and bring him up in June or July to provide a shot in the arm to the pen SS Anderson RF Eaton 1B Abreu LF Cespedes DH Cabrera 3B Frazier CF Rasmus C Castro 2B Lawrie/Saladino BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Sale SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Petricka RP Jennings RP Putnam RP Fulmer/Shields RP Ynoa? RP ? Buy and Sell This is the route I ultimately think the franchise decides to go. I think Chris Sale's days with the White Sox are numbered and I think they will ultimately do pretty well in a trade for him. I think the team tries to capitalize off that one trade and compete while also planning for the future. -Trade Chris Sale to the Red Sox for Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers, Michael Kopech, Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart. In this trade, the Sox get someone they covet for some reason in Swihart, they get a stud CF, the eventual replacement for Frazier, a young power arm, and a rotation piece for the present. Fills needs but also builds for the future. -Sign Edwin Encarnacion to offset the loss in pitching. I'd personally go somewhere around 4 yr, $92 million. -Sign Boone Logan as your second lefty in the pen. -Bring up Burdi and really make the bullpen a strength. Shorten the game for the starters and make the bullpen lock down. RF Eaton SS Benintendi 1B Abreu DH Encarnacion LF Cabera 3B Frazier C Swihart 2B Lawrie/Saladino SS Anderson BE Lawrie/Saladino BE Narvaez BE Tilson BE Davidson? SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Rodriguez SP Fulmer/Shields CL Robertson SU Jones SU Burdi RP Jennings RP Logan RP Putnam RP Petricka Rebuild This is the hardest to predict. If they start a massive rebuild, I look for Quintana to go to the Dodgers and Sale to go to the Red Sox. I think Frazier, Melky, and Robertson go at the deadline. Lawrie probably goes for a flier piece in the offseason. Love this post. I have Sale to Boston and Q to LAD as well.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) This is why I want to rebuild. I don't think a Jason Castro, Lind/Alvarez, and Saunders/Rasmus/Gomez offseason is that much of a difference but I could see them doing it. I could definitely see this happening but it'll be another underachieving season. Just delaying the inevitable in all reality. I want a rebuild badly because I want to be good for a length of time not one season.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) This post is perfect. I keep looking back to what the Braves got back for Shelby Miller. Their partner in that trade just fired its GM. The Sox don't have to pull off a robbery but at some point we have to think about why we're not trading our pitching assets while teams all around the league are receiving ridiculous prices for theirs. Are we unwilling to do what is necessary, or unable? What's going on. At least we have James Shields. I think it's on Jerry.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:52 AM) Rick Hahn on the score said he sees disadvantage in announcing rebuild. I'm starting to bet on a rebuild. Makes sense. A team would be may be willing to offer a huge haul to pry a guy who is unavailable away. Makes too much sense. Bad free agent market plus available star pitchers equals big returns.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) And where do these "better players" come from? There aren't many good free agents. The few that are out there will be given ridiculously massive contracts from teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. Exactly why I want a rebuild this year. Bad free agent market will help the returns on our vets.

I want some fresh faces on this staff. New bench coach, new hitting coach and 3rd base coach. Then execute the rebuild plan. Sell everyone but don't be afraid to keep Sale if you can't get what you want. I feel confident in being able to get what we want for Q and others. I truly believe with the bare pitching market this winter in free agency, we can get what we want for Sale and rebuild and start a new core (Eaton, Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Burdi, Collins, etc.). It'll be rough for 2 years but this team will be set for contention for years and that's a hell of a lot better than Kenny and Jerry's lightning in a bottle plan.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 09:19 PM) After re-reading the Hahn quotes today, definitely seems like they are going the rebuilding path. Hate that Hahn gets to make these deals after his horrible tenure Hopefully Hahn gets his way. Let him do his thing. I'm more confident in a rebuild than letting him spend and sign free agent busts.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) I kind of doubt that Rodon is the extending type of guy. Not with his agent but it may become common for pitchers to re-sign early to protect themselves in case of injury.

If we decided on a full rebuild, I'm confident they could get the promising young bats back and have the pitching to make up for it in the coming years. The team is really starting to draft better overall. We have the 12th pick, so it's a chance at another top young player along with another draft class overall. I just don't want to see anymore half-assed efforts anymore and with such a poor free agent class, we need to move our top pitchers for young prospects. We could reshape the team with Sale and Q alone.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Boras client, doubtful he signs an extension No chance he does unless he gets TJ surgery and the Sox offer a big enough contract after he healed.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) Crazier, under control for less years, not worlds better and would get more in a trade. It'd make sense. I still say if you sell either everyone other than Rodon and Anderson is on the table from the MLB roster. I could see it if you could get some team to give ya what you want for him and you get a bundle of near ready prospects or ready prospects and some near ready guys. I still say Boston makes the most sense. I really want a full rebuild though. I'm just not sure sure if you only traded Sale, would it make us that much closer to contention? I mean if Boston gave up JBJr, Benintendi, Kopech, Devers and Vasquez is that enough? I'd take that and move on from Sale.

I'm fine with whatever criticism this club get. It's completely warranted but I'm good with this hire and I'm eager to see this team's "plan" moving forward. I am curious to see any new coaches being hired. I just dream about Omar Vizquel being hired and working with Tim year in year out. That's my choice for bench coaches I mentioned before. I'm ok with keeping coop because our pitching is solid year in year out. I'm still trying to think about hitting coach names. Maybe Raul Ibanez?

Some heads need to roll on this staff. Especially the hitting coaches. Now, they're not the ones not hitting but the approaches were god awful this season. There needs to be some changes as well. I'd love to snag Omar Vizquel for the bench coach. Love the guy. I'd have to think about hitting coaches and bullpen guys.

I do agree that the Sox should do an interview process. But this team is too loyal so they won't.

Thanks for your dedication Robin! Wasn't personal, you just weren't right for the job.

Sigh...some things will never change until Jerry is dead.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) So maybe we end up with the Rick and Rick Show starring Rick Renteria and Rick Hahn. Maybe the Sox could bring back Rick Peterson and make him pitching coach. Renteria should have his choice of coaches and is probably familiar with Peterson. I just want the Three Ricks . If they fail we can call them the three pricks lol

QUOTE (hi8is @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) He's far too passive for management. Look at the absurd stuff that has happened out of that club house - no competent manager would have allowed for such sideshows. That's just one gripe. It's beyond time for him to go and it's also beyond time that KW goes with him. Agreed. Too many distractions going on. It's time to get a manager who can step in and take charge of this clubhouse. Get Kenny out so Hahn can do his rebuild and see what he's truly about.

There needs to be big changes. Renteria as manager and Kenny being gone is a great start. Let Hahn do his thing without being battled by Kenny. Time for the big rebuild. Renteria did well with the Cubs so I'm optimistic. I'll be plenty patient with this team if there's a rebuild. Would also like to see an overhaul with the coaching staff and pro scouting.

Oh man this would be a helluva start Monday. Let Hahn do his thing. He can report to Jerry himself just fine. Front office doesn't need to be a cluster f***.