Bob Sacamano

Trump is definitely moving quick on a lot of fronts. Must be difficult for the Democrats to figure out what they want to protest next.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 02:06 PM) I didn't say there wouldn't be a loss, I just said it wont be that massive because Eaton was never that great at the plate. If the Sox are really going to fall from 20th to bottom 5 in run scored it will take more than just replacing Eaton with Tilson. Need a couple complete meltdowns from guys who contributed last year, these are predictions nobody seems willing to make though. "Hold them til deadline, they'll accrue more value" is incompatible with pessimistic team outlooks. Half seasons from Frazier, Melky and whoever they deal should do the trick.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) I think I donated my jersey I think I still have my shirsey that I can bust out.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 01:48 PM) Well I'm the kind of guy that includes the disasters. And even if I wasn't I'd still be looking at the 5 walks in 7.2 IP in Sept. as an indication his control never really improved even in the absence of Navarro. But whatever I'm not going to get this far in depth over 8 inning sample sizes to make my broader point that Robertson is either about to completely fall apart or already has and we dont (well I do) know it yet. What do you expect to get for Robertson right now? It's entirely possible that no teams want him or are willing to give up any kind of piece even with the Sox eating some salary. Apparently holding onto a player to try to rebuild value is a tough concept to understand.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 01:47 PM) Read this sentence again. Nothing about Tilson shows that he will be anywhere close to Eaton. Yeah he has posted quite a few head-scratchers the past few days.

It's gotten to the point where someone could just tweet or write up an article about the Sox talking to a team about one of their players and it wouldn't be wrong. We all know they're talking. This shouldn't shock anyone.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 12:50 PM) For example for a super cheap price, I wouldn't mind a guy like Jake Peavy around to show some of the kids how to compete with intensity. Somebody to suck up some innings and be a warm body. QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 01:17 PM) Bringing back Peavy would be entertaining. Screw it. I'm on the Jake Peavy train now haha

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 12:48 PM) I dont either after talking to people and seeing some of the other guys in that class. I'm not doubting you, but could you post some links about the 2018 draft? It would be interesting to read about. I'm also on the side where I think its a little silly to get stuck on one player who is still 2 full college seasons away from being drafted.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) Like James Shields and Derek Holland, Jason Hammel's style of pitching doesn't translate well at Guaranteed Rate Field. That's fine...all the losses. Imagine if we were able to deal Q and sign Hammel. We would be replacing Sale and Quintana with Holland and Hammel and people would still think we are going to be good next year lol

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) Also true. I mean they could have done a bit more dumpster diving and I wouldn't have been sad about it. I think they likely will sign someone to a minor league deal as depth in case there is an injury early in the season and you don't want to call up Giolito or Lopez yet.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 12:10 PM) Why will the offense be worse? Eaton? You know Eaton wasn't even the best hitting outfielder the Sox had last year, right? You realize whoever they replace him with makes the lineup overall worse correct? Along with the defense in RF? They aren't going to be better than 2016 after dealing Sale and Eaton and likely 2-3 guys by July.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 12:06 PM) Sox dream scenario: Robertson bounces back in first half and they sell him off in July at a premium. Jones assumes the closer role and goes 14/16 in the second half with lots of strikeouts. Then they trade Jones and his 2004 contract for three good young prospects in the offseason. Yeah I'd love to see all that happen.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:53 AM) But he's basically the same as Cody Allen! I mean Cody Allen helped the Indians to a division title and AL pennant if the Sox have that kind of guy closing games for them that's probably going to help them win some games, right? He helps them win some games, but the offense and starting rotation being worse will be reasons why he won't pitch ahead often and get saves. Comparing a 2016 Indians to a 2017 White Sox team is a joke.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Let's stick to the topic instead of going at individual posters guys. I think there's a good debate here. There's credence to the idea that idea that Robertson could never be the same pitcher that got him the contract he has with the Sox and there's even more credence that he rebounds. He didn't lose his velocity last year. He had some outings where everything went wrong. He had some stretches where he didn't have his fastball command in any way. That's the nature of the spontaneous task of relief pitching. When you lack the movement desired on your fastball and you can't locate it you're going to get hit it a bit and have some outings that really mess up your numbers. One thing is clear to me - he is at the lowest value point of his career right now. If his value is even positive (given contract), he's not going to get the White Sox a return of anything to get excited about. Hold this guy. The teams that are looking at their bullpen and listing seven guys and saying "We're set" are going to have a couple injuries. Every team is at basically full strength right now. If Robertson starts his season like he did 2015 he's going to be a commodity in July. He won't be a rental, he'll be ~25% cheaper than he is now and he would have a track record that could give opposing executives a bit more confidence. If you keep and he sucks, you lose a C type prospect. If you hold him and he bounces back, you could pick up a piece or two that could really benefit the organization for years to come. There's no more obvious hold on the team than Robertson. Amen.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) Every single time I try and explain why I think a player, other than established villains like Avisail Garcia, is bad everyone rushes over to call me STUPID for it. If this team is supposed to be so noncompetitive next year then how come all the players are supposed to be so good? You guys watch baseball (I assume) so you know how huge an impact a good closer can have on a team's record. If Robertson really does regain his form, as so many have predicted, the Sox will be winning a lot of one-run games which combined with a couple others things (like huge years from Todd Frazier, Jose Abreu and Brett Lawrie plus the emergence of Rodon as an elite starter...all things predicted by people calling me stupid in THIS THREAD) could make them a competitive team. Hell if all those things happen and they stay mostly healthy they will be a good team. Not necessarily. Even on a bad team, a closer is likely guaranteed 35+ saves about if he closes the whole season injury-free.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:43 AM) Robertson had 4 games in 2016 where he gave up more than 1 run, Allen had 3, including his own KC-esque meltdown against our very own White Sox in August. Robertson allowed a .247 wOBA in high-leverage situations (30 IP) and a .277 wOBA with runners on base. Allen allowed a .306 wOBA (23 IP) in high leverage situations and a .283 wOBA with runners on base. I think Allen is better too, but those numbers don't support your theory that Robertson doesn't have the makeup to be a closer or tends to unravel when he gets into tight situations. QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:46 AM) If a closer gave up a run every five 1 inning appearances, his ERA would be 1.8. Would you consider that stuffling? I think your gut is very wrong here. There's just no point anymore. Better to let him keep complaining and rambling about s*** that isn't true.

At what point do we just start ignoring everything this guy says?

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) If you only look at the AB's where Jose Abreu got a hit he bat a perfect .1000 on the year! Incredible! Robertson is a case where I am 100% comfortable waiting until June to say I told you so. I hope to god its on a different team, even if they want to compete in 2017 (stupid, but whatever) they are better off shipping him out so hopefully that's what happens. I wonder what Rizzo would've added to the Eaton deal if the Sox would've included Robertson and not stuck to the silly "only sell one a piece at a time" mentality that really doesn't make too much sense. Having 12 appearances out of 62 for the season where you give up runs is pretty good I would say. I don't understand what you expect to get for him now instead of waiting considering "how bad he is" (your words).

Looking at the game log from last season, he had 4 games where he gave up more than one run. I see a command trend to this. Before the first game, he hadn't pitched in 5 days. The second time, a week. The third time, 12 days. The fourth and final bad game came after he had pitched the day before though so that's an outlier I suppose. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...p&year=2016 Edit: if he doesn't pitch that one game against KC when it was a blowout, who knows what happens. Also, 16 of his 24 earned runs on the season came in 4 those outings.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) There are players I have faith and there are players I dont. Robertson falls into the second category because he sucks. Wasn't it confirmed that he pitch injured last year? He had surgery pretty much as soon as the season ended.

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:27 AM) The OP must have been hitting the Jack or Tito hard. That was one hell of a crazy post. I'm not sold that the Sox front office is completely on board with tearing this thing down to the studs. The "bad apples" are gone and that is it so far. KW and Jerry are still running the show and rebuild is not in their vocabulary. They are a lot of desperate mediocre veterans still looking for a contract and time is running out. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the following signings are announced at SoxFest and/or sometime in early February. Kurt Suzuki - 1 year contract-5.5 million ( Will platoon with either Soto/Navarez) Dude is a sox killer and rakes at Sox Park. Has bad defensive metrics but the Sox front office doesn't seem to care much about that if last years catcher signings were any indication. Ryan Howard- 1 year -6 million base with incentives that could push it over 10 million. (will primarily DH and Spell Abreu at first) Total Kenny signing here. He tried to catch lighting in a bottle last year with Rollins why not try again with Howard? Angel Pagan-1 year 8 million- (will start in Center) It doesn't sound like Tilson is gonna be ready for opening day and may never be the same player after that gruesome hamstring injury. Pagan will give a veteran presence in the outfield. Plus, he has never played in the AL before. KW and company like those kind of FA signings. Jason Hammel- 1 year-12 million- (Slots in as #3 starter behind Q and Rodon) Hammel is getting desperate for a contract and settles on a one year deal to build value. Sox need another righty in starting rotation. Travis Wood- 1 year- 7 million (Slots in as a jack of all trades and an insurance policy for if/when Holland & Shields implode) Wood is getting desperate for a deal as well. Sox sign two ex Cubs pitchers hoping some of the good juju from last year rolls over. 2017 Opening Day Lineup 1) Anderson-SS 2) Pagan-CF 3) Abreu-1B 4) Frazier-3B 5) Cabrera-LF 6) Howard-DH 7) Lawrie-2B 8) Garcia-RF 9) Suzuki-C Starting Roation 1) Q 2) Rodon 3) Hammel 4) Gonzalez 5) Holland/Shields (one is guaranteed to implode ala Danks/Latos last year) Bullpen DRob Jones Putnam Wood Petrickia Jennings Ynoa Covey I have a feeling Gonzalez will implode (or at the very least, not pitch anywhere as well as he did last year).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 09:53 AM) I really hope that is true. I hate to think of people like that existing in humanity. Unfortunately, those people are out there. I feel like every day I'm reading a disturbing story about child abuse/killing and animal abuse. Makes me sick.

Resident Evil 7...pretty scary.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 04:07 PM) Betting on mild improvements from Abreu/Frazier/Robertson isn't betting on massive performances. They don't need to be MVP-level to gain value. And if you really believe these players are garbage over 30 vets, then they currently have no value anyway and won't do much to help the team win, so holding on to them until the deadline is basically a wash anyway. And as of right now, there really isn't a market for Melky or Frazier. Melky makes most sense for SF, but I don't think management really likes him after 2012.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 04:05 PM) I said magically haha As the roster is constructed today, we probably still win 70 games I wasn't referring to your post. It was more towards the guy losing his s*** accusing us of "wanting them to win the division" or whatever hes babbling about.