tray

I think it is impossible to predict based on his small stint on the major league roster. It is worth noting that Flowers hit for a .223 BA with a .289OBP in seven years with the White Sox. If the Sox have a catcher who can hit .240 and be decent defensively, that would be an upgrade. Can Narvaez do that? Not sure That is one of the big questions and why the Sox signed Soto. But that is not to write this player off yet. He surprised everyone when he came up last year.

There are a few players and pitchers that might surprise us and change the rebuilding equation, at least in terms of the timetable. I have a few favorites of mine that I think might be in that category - players that no one expects much from, and then end up over performing expectations. First one is Omar Narvaez. Omar came up briefly last season and showed that at least he can hit the ball. I think he has some upside and he is just 24 years old. Tyler Saladino in my opinion played a decent second base and made some unbelievable plays going up the middle. He also had some clutch hits and started hitting with some power. I would have him as my starting second basemen, then possibly play Moncada at third and Frazier at first. That would leave Abreu to share 1B/DH (until one is traded). Matt Davidson started hitting very well in ST last year. I wonder if he could possibly play LF. If he could, then switch Melky to RF where his arm would be more valuable than it has been in LF. Then DFA Avi Garcia. Charlie Tilson is another x factor who could end up surprising us as a Center Fielder, especially if he still has the speed he had before the injury. Our pitching staff has too many potential surprises to mention and everyone here knows who they are. Burdi, Kopech, Gio, and others. So it's the old story of "ifs" , that perennial questions that many teams have at the beginning of the season -- if, if, if multiple players perform beyond expectations, you might have a decent team. If that ends up happening you have to think about changing the timetable on the rebuild and maybe forget about tanking the season.

I think it is useful to revisit the Cubs trade to the A's" for 3 prospects in July 2014. "Samardzija, 29, is 2-7 with a 2.83 ERA this season. Hammel, 31, is 7-5 with a 2.98 ERA . Hammel is set to become a free agent after this season, while Samardzija has one more year of arbitration before becoming a free agent. Russell, 20, is ranked third among all prospects on ESPN Insider Keith Law's top 100 list. Russell has appeared in only 18 games this season due to a hamstring strain, hitting .333 in 58 at-bats at Double-A Midland. McKinney, 19, has a .241 batting average with 10 home runs and 33 RBIs in 75 games for Class A Stockton this year. Straily, 25, is 1-2 with a 4.93 ERA in seven starts for the A's. The right-hander is 13-11 in 41 starts for Oakland over the past three seasons. I believe Billy Beane thought this would let them make a run. Lessons can be learned from history, even recent history. One of the biggest lessons is patience. I am hoping Hahn has enough of it to wait this thing out until the time is right to win on a trade. I don't buy the no-balls. fold'em instead of hold 'em, school of thought which claims that Q must be traded before ST lest he be injured, his performance drops, the market for pitchers weakens... This is our biggest trade chip. Hahn has to be The Gambler. Bluff, posture, look confident, and win at baseball's version of poker.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:22 AM) CheerforBeer2018 Trade Quintana AND Rodon. Try to trade Frazier and Melky.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:43 PM) Why? Explain to me why Hahn's perception of Quintana's value is wrong and Luhnow or Huntington's perception of Quintana's value is right? Why should we compromise? In regards to a barren pitching market, how many assets have you seen become available like Q before? Irregardless of how many other SP's might come on the market in the next 6-18 months, how many do you suppose will provide the surplus value that Quintana does, especially if teams aren't showing a willingness to liquidate their prospects for such assets? This notion that some influx of other reasonable arms coming on the market is somehow going to water down Quintana's market is pure horses***. You don't think those pitchers are truly available today, as potential tradeable assets rather than free agents? You don't think the Tigers would trade Verlander? It's not a question of a barren market, it's question of an asset being so valuable that teams are hesitant to liquidate assets for them. That shouldn't cause us to lower our price. What that requires is patience. Finding the "right" buyer isn't always a fast process, but that buyer does exist. Hahn will find them. Yes, you are right on the money. I get the thirst for trade rumors or trade news but this is a rebuild that is supposed to take 2-3 years, not 2-3 months. The Q trade is absolutely critical to this rebuild. I don't care if it takes until next off-season and I would take the risk of Q having a bad season given his proven durability. I don't see Detroit unloading Verlander for a basketful of prospects. Remember, Theo got Addison Russell for Shark, a premier elite position player for a middle of rotation pitcher. Hahn has to win this trade and that requires patience.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 07:55 PM) Q has been as consistently good as any pitcher in the league the last few years. Zero reasons to take a less package for him, especially whatever garbage package of sub-standard prospects the Astros want to throw at us. Q is an all star TOR with probably the best contract in baseball. We need an A headliner positional prospect, not just a bunch of b level prospects. Hold onto him if the package isn't there. He will do what he does and some team at the deadline who is desperate for an arm will give in. Exactly. The bushels of prospects reportedly wheeled up by interested teams have been a waste of everyone's time. The trade for Q has to be considered almost as a one-for-one deal with some minor league talent going one way or the other.

Sox need another starting pitcher or two that can eat innings, abnd possibly a middle relief guy that can do that. They also need a decent Lefty set-up man to replace Zach Duke. I am going to be pulling for Tilson and Davidson to make the 25 man roster.

Rodon was a first round draft pick and is now a proven major league pitcher with potential. In fact, if Quintana is traded, Rodon might well be the Sox Ace. Rodon's potential is clear to professional scouts and GMs around the league. As such, he has plenty of trade value as a powerful, young, top of the rotation lefty starter. If Levine is right and there are several suitors for Quintana, and some teams are not willing to part with enough talent to get Q, there is no reason why they might not be interested in Rodon at a slightly lower cost in return talent. So, for the right return of prospects, including outfield or catcher prospects that can hit the ball, I would trade Rodon in a flash. No player is untradeable, at least no player that the Sox have on their roster, including Rodon. As some claim here, the market demand for starting pitchers is high and the supply is low. That argues in favor of trading pitchers instead of waiting. A boatload of prospect for Quintana and Rodon could seriously advance the rebuilding process. It could also help to develop young pitchers in our system that will get a chance to pitch in the major leagues like Fulmer. If those young pitcher struggle, that might increase the chance that the Sox tank in 2017 and get a high Draft pick in 2018.

An admittedly crazy thought crossed my mind after reading that several teams may now have upped their offers. If Hahn really likes these supposedly increased Offers, perhaps he might consider dealing Q to one team and Rodon to another. That might really move the timetable for the rebuild forward. We give up half of our remaining rotation, but that could be a major haul of prospects, one like we have never seen before in such a short time period. OK, I know I have really lost my mind now, so back to watching football.

If the Sox really believe in this player they can go over the international signing bonus and suffer the consequences: All overages are taxed at 100 percent. Exceed bonus pool by 5 to 10 percent: Team is not allowed to sign a player for more than $500K in the following international signing period. Exceed by 10 to 15 percent: Team is not allowed to sign a player for more than $300K in the following international signing period. Exceed by more than 15 percent: Team is not allowed to sign a player for more than $300K in the following two international signing periods. The Sox need All Stars at almost every position to compete for a World Series championship. that is also why Hahn will not trade Q for a bunch of prospects who might make it to the big leagues as average players. Q is the only player left on the roster that might bring back a A+ position player prospect. So the best way to get additional potential All Star type players is from he Draft or from the International signing pool. I say go for it. Try to get this player.

IMO, Hahn gets his man, Austin Meadows, or Hahn walks and Q is our Ace until July when the "market" for a top of the rotation pitcher by contending clubs will present a better environment for a trade.

Hahn has and will continue to demand certain key position players from whichever team he is negotiating with. Next years potential free agent pitching market does not change that, nor does any pressure exerted on the Sox to make a trade. Patience is a virtue in trade negotiations. Hopefully he has a lot more patience than we do as Sox fans.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 01:33 PM) Did you just compare Josh Bell to Dayan Viciedo? Holy f*** is that a terrible comparison. It'd actually a decent comparison if you make that comparison at the same age and weight. Josh Bell is actually worse in the outfield and cannot play first base. Neither one are major league level players. Bell is Tank II. No thanks.

If I could put Hahn's hat on I would take the following options, if they would be offered for Q, in this order: 1. Astros: Bregman , (and I might include another player from the Sox to get Breg, like Frazier) 2. Yankees : Frazier, Torres (don't need Diaz) (I would also trade Frazier to them if they wanted him for another prospect) 3. Pirates: Meadows, Keller (I'd throw in Avi Garcia, lol,) Please no Josh "Tank II" Bell. 4. If none of the above (which increasingly apapears to be the case) wait to trade Quintana for another day. In the meantime, I would try to reacquire Tray Thompson from the Dodgers. Edited to add: Frazier and/or Melky might be useful for the Yankees or one of the other teams, a and might possibly put one of these deals over the top.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) I would think you'd be way MORE nervous about a contention plan that is centered on last year's White Sox minus Adam Eaton and Chris Sale. Yea, that's what I thought. I'm just getting frustrated with no trades getting done.

Meadows remains the key to a deal with the Pirates. I think Bell is too risky, His defense is awful, he may not have enough power or hitting prowess to be a full time DH. OK, I understand this may be heresy for some hoping for a 3-5 year rebuild, but if this rebuild plan fizzles and the Sox can't trade Q, Frazier, Abreu, and Melky for what they believe they are worth, what if the Sox decide to reverse the wheels from a total tank style rebuild? Can the Sox compete for the Division, assuming they add a legit major league outfielder or two with Malky and Charlie Tilson in Left and Center? Narvaez, Soto catching, and infield of Frazier, Tim Anderson, Moncada and Abreu ? Rotation anchored by Quintana and Rodon? Players can always be traded. It is not that easy to assemble a 25 man roster that is competitive and no guarantee that blowing it up gets that done any time soon. Maybe I'm just getting too nervous about this rebuilding plan and worried it won't work.

Austin Meadows plus Keller might be the minimum Hahn would accept. Again, though, Meadows is probably off the table so the Q trade talks may be winding down on all fronts. This was one helluva thread though.

Does the lack of rumors indicate that the White Sox have an air-tight, no leaks front office or is it simply because there is nothing to disclose...that no trade offers are pending and no negotiations are happening?

Like any other trade possibility, it depends what the compensation is. The Sox have a decent infield right now. Potentially, Frazier, Anderson, Moncada. Abreu. If the Pirates offer Austin Meadows for Q and someone makes a mistake by offering too much for Rodon, (like Trea Turner) you trade both of them.

The heart of the Cubs rebuild was 4 or 5 young star position players. Once those players came up, the Cubs signed numerous veteran position players - ( Montero, Ross, Lastella, Zobrist, Heyward, Dexter Fowler) and several veteran pitchers. They spent a lot of money to build that roster. Other teams have approached rebuilding by focusing even more on free agents. Whatever works. For the White Sox, I don't envision a long slog to rebuild. That is based on two basic factors. First, I do not think Sox fans will be as patient as some claim they will be. Second, Reinsdorf wants to win and will spend money once he sees a path forward. Those old enough may recall when Reinsdorf/Einhorn acquired Fisk and Luzinski. They built a pretty decent roster around them, even though they never won it. And the 2005 World Series champs were not a team built after a long rebuilding effort. Now, the Sox need to assemble a core of 4 or 5 excellent position players. They already have a pretty decent core of pitching prospects. So Moncada, Tim Anderson and hopefully Zack Collins and perhaps two more premier position players. One might come soon, in a trade for Quintana. Then perhaps get lucky by flipping Gonzo mid season for a prospect if he has a decent year or getting a top prospect for Abreu during the season if he returns to his earlier form. No long term slog will be tolerated by fans or the Sox ownership. We may not get much in the 2017 Draft at #12, and who knows where we will Draft in 2018. So, as soon as this team starts showing it can start to compete, it will be time to start signing players, including free agents to add to the young core. I don't see the Sox tanking the team in 2017. No way they will be as bad as 4 or 5 other teams, even if they try. Another Fulmer or Rodon is not worth tanking a season. The Sox will try to compete in 2017 to the extent they can. I will root for them to win every game they can. I'm not sitting back waiting to win. Field the best team possible and play the games to win.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 08:35 PM) Pirates give up Meadows + 2 lesser pieces as ST approaches. ....and the Pirates still have McCutcheon.

The Sox will not trade Quintana without that one headliner - an elite position player prospect. I am among those who think the Sox should wait for the phone to ring now, and not trade Q unless and until they get that player. Frazier is in a different category. The Sox might even consider picking up part of his 2017 Contract if they get prospects in return, and those prospects obviously would not be in that elite category. Therefore, that move would mainly be a salary dump, nothing to get too excited about. It could be argued that the rebuild strategy is now beginning to fizzle a bit and that the Sox might not be able to pull off another trade during the off-season for another elite position player prospect. I fear the worst case scenario - that this rebuild could leave the Sox mired in mediocrity for a longer time than most Sox fans want to endure. The time frame for this rebuild has to be a short one. I already see fans growing impatient, wondering what kind of a team is going to be on the field on Opening Day. Fans might say they are patient for a rebuild, but that patience might evaporate if this team becomes the laughing stock in Chicago while the Cubs keep killing it.

Yankees might expand the prospect hall if the Sox include Todd Frazier with Quintana. Toddfather, a NJ native, would be a perfect fit in the Bronx and I am sure he would love playing there.

I get that there will be free agent pitchers next off-season, but that would not diminish Q's value at the trade deadline. Don't trade Q now. Wait for a team that is desperate.

Sox will not get a top 10 prospect for Quintana now, so it may be better to wait until some team has an urgent need for a top line starter during the season because of injury or poor performance by someone in their rotation. No need to be impatient. Sit back and relax. We aren't going anywhere any time soon. It looks llike 2017 is going to be a strange year where young players are being auditioned for the Sox and veteran players are being auditioned for scouts of other teams. Yes, just hold on to Quintana now, make him our ace, and hope he starts the season strong. If he does that, the Sox will get the prospect haul they want. If he blows up his arm or pitches poorly, well that's the risk you take if you want to get what you want for him. Don't settle for less. Please.