The Decline of White Sox Fan Culture

[bmags]

The Sox when most of us were kids had Frank Thomas, a very rare type of player that made it easy to love the team regardless of wins and losses. I really think it's that simple. If you have charismatic teams that compete, it's easy to be a fan. But even when you don't, having a guy like Frank Thomas makes it easy. The Big Hurt wasn't a media darling, didn't have great things to say in interviews, but was a fabulous player and person and his at bats were appointment TV.

 

yeah, although tbh when I was a kid frank was often booed and people shouted "more money" at him. Wasn't until 2000 when it turned back around for him that I remember. His holdouts really hurt him, in the eyes of the fans back when athletes should not get a million dollars.

[COACH612]

I was up by Wrigley Field yesterday. About half the bars are gone. It is a construction zone. It will probably be really nice when it is completed.

It will be really nice. Hotel, skating rink, high end shops and other stuff. Who would not want to be there even in the off season? What do the Sox have?

Views of the railroad tracks?

[Lip Man 1]

And who cares about many years ago. I am talking about the last 25 years. Wrigleyville was a dump many years ago but that does not count anymore. My point is that no matter how the Sox do compared to the Cubs, they Cubs will always fill their seats because of the stuff outside and around the stadium. Sox can't compete with that.

 

Wasn't it around five or six years ago the TV showed all the empty bleacher seats at Wrigley because fans were upset and staying away?

 

And to the main point, it could have happened 100 years ago...doesn't matter...the statement that Chicago has always been a Cubs town is historical wrong.

 

Mark

 

[Lip Man 1]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Cubs-...twork-Soon.html

Assume that deal in the last paragraph expires in 2019?

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0124-story.html

Good article looking at pros and cons of own network

 

http://cubbiescrib.com/2016/01/25/chicago-...isk-and-reward/

 

Caul:

 

I believe the actual Comcast deal runs through the 2019 season but the Cubs will announce specific details before that. Crain Kenney has already publicly said that is there plan, to form their own TV Network.

 

Mark

[lasttriptotulsa]

And who cares about many years ago. I am talking about the last 25 years. Wrigleyville was a dump many years ago but that does not count anymore. My point is that no matter how the Sox do compared to the Cubs, they Cubs will always fill their seats because of the stuff outside and around the stadium. Sox can't compete with that.

 

My dad, who grew up on the north side, told me the other day, when he was growing up, he did not even know Chicago had a 2nd team. It was all Cubs. No matter how the Sox do, it will always be a Cubs town.

 

Obviously you care about many years ago since your entire first point was regarding the era your father grew up in and that it will always be a Cub town despite the fact that 116 years of history prove that to be absolutely untrue.

Edited October 26, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa

[Hatchetman]

TV ratings for Cubs game 1 was same as 2005 game 1. I know TV ratings are down but still....

[COACH612]

Obviously you care about many years ago since your entire first point was regarding the era your father grew up in and that it will always be a Cub town despite the fact that 116 years of history prove that to be absolutely untrue.

You are right. I am wrong. Apparently all the retailers selling jerseys and such are also wrong. Apparently people come to Chicago to go to a Sox game.

[shipps]

TV ratings for Cubs game 1 was same as 2005 game 1. I know TV ratings are down but still....

 

Makes sense. Each teams fans have an interest in watching. Cub fans were watching our series just as much as we are stalking theirs now.

[lasttriptotulsa]

You are right. I am wrong. Apparently all the retailers selling jerseys and such are also wrong. Apparently people come to Chicago to go to a Sox game.

 

The f*** you talking about. Nobody said the Cubs didn't own the city right now but your assertion that it will always be a Cubs town is ludicrous. Over 116 years the popularity of each team has ebbed and flowed with how successful the team is at the time. In 2006 after winning the 2005 World Series the Sox drew 2,957,414 people. That is 89.8% capacity. The Cubs drew 3,342,708 for 93.4% capacity. Very small differences. Had the Sox sustained their success for a couple years they would have had a real good shot to catch the Cubs. They didn't. attendance began to drop in 2007 when the team was terrible again. You can't base the future off of the past 2 decades and ignore the 90+ years of history before that.

[southsider2k5]

The f*** you talking about. Nobody said the Cubs didn't own the city right now but your assertion that it will always be a Cubs town is ludicrous. Over 116 years the popularity of each team has ebbed and flowed with how successful the team is at the time. In 2006 after winning the 2005 World Series the Sox drew 2,957,414 people. That is 89.8% capacity. The Cubs drew 3,342,708 for 93.4% capacity. Very small differences. Had the Sox sustained their success for a couple years they would have had a real good shot to catch the Cubs. They didn't. attendance began to drop in 2007 when the team was terrible again. You can't base the future off of the past 2 decades and ignore the 90+ years of history before that.

 

 

Realistically, less than half of that 116 years is even relevant anymore. If you want to make an honest assessment of the situation, you probably narrow your search and should consider the people who are actually alive today. The actual circumstances are for the vast majority of the people who are alive today and going to games who are fans of either team, Chicago has always been a Cubs town, even if the Sox managed to outdraw them on a rare occasion in the past few decades.

 

Lets be real. In the last 50 years, that is two plus generations of fans, the White Sox have outdrawn the Cubs 9 times. Two of those were centered around the opening of New Comiskey Park in 1991 and 1992.

 

Even at the absolute peak of the modern Sox didn't out draw the Cubs when the won the World Series in 2005, nor did they outdraw them in 2006, the year after the World Series or 2008 when they made the playoffs. The Cubs in 2005 won 79 games and finished 4th. In 2006 they won 66 games and finished in last, and with the world record in the NL. The Sox at their absolute peak, couldn't outdraw a team that lost more games than any Cubs team had since 1980!

 

You have to go back 24 years to 1992 for the last time the Sox outdrew the Cubs.

 

That means you have an entire generation of people who are 30 and younger who have never seen the White Sox as the #1 team in this town.

 

So while it looks imposing to quote the 1920's, 30's and 40's and even the 50's, as somehow important to today, it isn't. You have to be pushing the mid 60's years old to even remember a game played in the 1950's. Quoting the 1920's as relevant here is like saying that the Republicans voted for the repeal of slavery, as if it is relevant to 2016. It isn't. Chicago is a Cubs town, and pretty solidly has been since the 1950's and early 1960's. That is three generations now.

[greg775]

Wasn't it around five or six years ago the TV showed all the empty bleacher seats at Wrigley because fans were upset and staying away?

 

And to the main point, it could have happened 100 years ago...doesn't matter...the statement that Chicago has always been a Cubs town is historical wrong.

 

Mark

Yeah there was a point during their rebuild the fans finally had enough. That was a brief period, however. Am I not correct? Finally, but I think it only was for a season or two, the Cubs had some empty seats. Still not very many though, right? It didn't last long as when they got competitive it started filling up again for every game.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah there was a point during their rebuild the fans finally had enough. That was a brief period, however. Am I not correct? Finally, but I think it only was for a season or two, the Cubs had some empty seats. Still not very many though, right? It didn't last long as when they got competitive it started filling up again for every game.

 

Their absolute low during this rebuild was 2.6 million people at Wrigley, or 32.6k per night. The White Sox haven't seen 2.6 million people since 2007.

[Hatchetman]

I'm old enough to actually remember the 70s. It was not a Cubs town. It was evenly split then or close to it.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Their absolute low during this rebuild was 2.6 million people at Wrigley, or 32.6k per night. The White Sox haven't seen 2.6 million people since 2007.

 

The numbers they report are the number of tickets sold not turnstile count. The Cubs had a couple years there were towards the end of the season they had some pretty sparse crowds. I remember seeing that you could get tickets on Stubhub for less than a dollar at times.

[southsider2k5]

I'm old enough to actually remember the 70s. It was not a Cubs town. It was evenly split then or close to it.

 

The numbers say differently. The White Sox outdrew the Cubs twice during the 70's. Once during the southside hitmen, the other in 74.

[southsider2k5]

The numbers they report are the number of tickets sold not turnstile count. The Cubs had a couple years there were towards the end of the season they had some pretty sparse crowds. I remember seeing that you could get tickets on Stubhub for less than a dollar at times.

 

The Sox have had their fair share of people dressing up as green and blue seats over the years.

[COACH612]

Realistically, less than half of that 116 years is even relevant anymore. If you want to make an honest assessment of the situation, you probably narrow your search and should consider the people who are actually alive today. The actual circumstances are for the vast majority of the people who are alive today and going to games who are fans of either team, Chicago has always been a Cubs town, even if the Sox managed to outdraw them on a rare occasion in the past few decades.

 

Lets be real. In the last 50 years, that is two plus generations of fans, the White Sox have outdrawn the Cubs 9 times. Two of those were centered around the opening of New Comiskey Park in 1991 and 1992.

 

Even at the absolute peak of the modern Sox didn't out draw the Cubs when the won the World Series in 2005, nor did they outdraw them in 2006, the year after the World Series or 2008 when they made the playoffs. The Cubs in 2005 won 79 games and finished 4th. In 2006 they won 66 games and finished in last, and with the world record in the NL. The Sox at their absolute peak, couldn't outdraw a team that lost more games than any Cubs team had since 1980!

 

You have to go back 24 years to 1992 for the last time the Sox outdrew the Cubs.

 

That means you have an entire generation of people who are 30 and younger who have never seen the White Sox as the #1 team in this town.

 

So while it looks imposing to quote the 1920's, 30's and 40's and even the 50's, as somehow important to today, it isn't. You have to be pushing the mid 60's years old to even remember a game played in the 1950's. Quoting the 1920's as relevant here is like saying that the Republicans voted for the repeal of slavery, as if it is relevant to 2016. It isn't. Chicago is a Cubs town, and pretty solidly has been since the 1950's and early 1960's. That is three generations now.

 

 

My point exactly. It's lost on some.

 

[RockRaines]

The Sox should have purchased the space where Coyne college used to be and plopped a new stadium right in the west loop.

[Hatchetman]

The numbers say differently. The White Sox outdrew the Cubs twice during the 70's. Once during the southside hitmen, the other in 74.

 

Between 1972 and 1984 the Sox outdrew the Cubs in total attendance.

[caulfield12]

I think it's fair to say for most younger fans, the early to mid 1980's, specifically 1984...with Harry Caray and WGN and Budweiser and Bleacher Babes showcased by Arne Harris, Ryne Sandberg on national tv most Saturdays, Andre Dawson in 1987, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, that time is essentially the crossing point for the two teams.

 

Then Harrelson in as GM...LaRussa, Leyland and Dombrowski on the way out. That 1984-1989 run killed the Sox, except for the promise of those young players and the new stadium, which turned out to be a massive disappointment to many at the time. Thank god the Cubs didn't win it all in 1989 of it would have been worse, but the White Sox new stadium reversed things temporarily until the strike. Then you had the Maddux, Grace and Sosa years.

 

Anyone born after 1970, those 45 and younger...Cubs' town, minus the Sox World Series in 2005.

Edited October 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Between 1972 and 1984 the Sox outdrew the Cubs in total attendance.

 

I would go with the 16 out of 20 years personally as a clearer trend.

[Hatchetman]

I would go with the 16 out of 20 years personally as a clearer trend.

 

LOL. Whatever you say.

[Thad Bosley]

The Sox have had their fair share of people dressing up as green and blue seats over the years.

It's mind boggling, isn't it, how the constant lack of winning results in the constant empty seats in the ballpark.

[tray]

"Am I just older? That's a definite possibility. But I guess you all can tell me."

--------------------------

 

I'll bite. No you aren't just older at 30 years old.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

It's mind boggling, isn't it, how the constant lack of winning results in the constant empty seats in the ballpark.

 

Well for one fan base in this town...