White Sox will keep trying Collins as a C

[Balta1701]

Gomes had a negative WAR and can't hit a lick. No way I trade

Jones for that. But I would love to get a good defensive catcher for the younger pitchers.

Yeah, that is WAY too little to get back for Jones. But you could find a way to make this work for me - Putnam maybe more interesting? Petricka? I'd give up someone like that for a person who helps us develop.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I've suggested Nate Jones for Yan Gomes a few times.

[NorthSideSox72]

Very true. How are the receiving skills for these two top 500 prospect catchers? I don't remember Narvaez pissing me off much

Narvaez is going to be fine defensively. He's got an average arm paired with a quick release and he likes back picks, so he should be average to slightly above against the running game. Fairly quiet receiver, I've heard positive notes from pitchers working with him. Fairly athletic. Overall average defensively, and I think he's got enough ability to get on base to be a major league backup.

 

Smith has a stronger arm and is more athletic, but mechanically he's still pretty rough and not a great receiver. Pitchers like working with him though, he's very good on that front. How good his receiving skills can get will dictate his future. There is some offensive potential, but the bat isn't quick and I am not sure he can make enough contact. He does draw some walks and has some raw power. But he's going to be 29 in 2017, so there really isn't a lot of projection left, like there is with Narvaez.

 

My view is, bring in a veteran to platoon with Narvaez, who I think is more likely to be a major league-caliber catcher than Smith.

[steveno89]

Narvaez is going to be fine defensively. He's got an average arm paired with a quick release and he likes back picks, so he should be average to slightly above against the running game. Fairly quiet receiver, I've heard positive notes from pitchers working with him. Fairly athletic. Overall average defensively, and I think he's got enough ability to get on base to be a major league backup.

 

Smith has a stronger arm and is more athletic, but mechanically he's still pretty rough and not a great receiver. Pitchers like working with him though, he's very good on that front. How good his receiving skills can get will dictate his future. There is some offensive potential, but the bat isn't quick and I am not sure he can make enough contact. He does draw some walks and has some raw power. But he's going to be 29 in 2017, so there really isn't a lot of projection left, like there is with Narvaez.

 

My view is, bring in a veteran to platoon with Narvaez, who I think is more likely to be a major league-caliber catcher than Smith.

 

Narvaez will be in the mix moving forward, but I'd like to see the White Sox also bring in a veteran to split time as well. He was solid enough in 34 games down the stretch to get a lengthy look in 2017

 

His career minor league OBP is .353 and he posted a .350 obp in 34 mlb games, which is encouraging. I'll take average defense at this point.

[Dick Allen]

People will forget Narvaez was even a White Sox in 2 years.

[steveno89]

People will forget Narvaez was even a White Sox in 2 years.

 

We can only hope

 

He deserves to get a shot in 2017 to prove himself though. He turns 25 in February and could be a solid backup option for us.

 

He is really cheap depth, might as well keep him around

[ptatc]

People will forget Narvaez was even a White Sox in 2 years.

Doesn't mean he won't be a decent backup catcher.

[Dick Allen]

Doesn't mean he won't be a decent backup catcher.

I don't believe he will. He's not a good framer. He hit OK, but has zero power, and will regress IMO offensively.

 

Obviously the bar for a back up catcher isn't very high, I just think he is a guy that will probably have a tough time moving forward.

[BamaDoc]

I could see a platoon with Narvaez the LH option though maybe let other guy pick up some of the at bats to get closer to 50:50. Some prospects close to MLB with rh bat and decent to good defense: Barnes/LAD, Murphy/Col, Severino or Kieboom/Wash. Those are teams deals have been rumored. These guys could be lesser parts or individual deals since some conversations have taken place.

[ptatc]

I don't believe he will. He's not a good framer. He hit OK, but has zero power, and will regress IMO offensively.

 

Obviously the bar for a back up catcher isn't very high, I just think he is a guy that will probably have a tough time moving forward.

Fair enough.

 

The bar for backup catcher is never very high. All you need to be is decent and have the pitchers like you. look at David Ross. how long was he in the MLB and I don't think he ever was very good.

[Dick Allen]

Fair enough.

 

The bar for backup catcher is never very high. All you need to be is decent and have the pitchers like you. look at David Ross. how long was he in the MLB and I don't think he ever was very good.

Not but he hit homers. Framed well. Those are 2 things Navaraez doesn't do yet. He was released a time or two IIRC. Framing obviously wasn't a thing for most of his career, but I think a good one leads to better results, and that helped him.

 

 

If you are a good guy and a decent defensive catcher, I agree, you can last a long time as a back up, but those guys usually bounce around quite a bit.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Dick Allen

[hi8is]

I saw Navarez in his MLB debut and was impressed with that showing. He seemed to hit well from the left side and was able to square up a couple hits that game. On a rebuilding team, he's a fine backup and a whatever starter.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't believe he will. He's not a good framer. He hit OK, but has zero power, and will regress IMO offensively.

 

Obviously the bar for a back up catcher isn't very high, I just think he is a guy that will probably have a tough time moving forward.

 

Not sure why you'd think a 24-year old would regress offensively. But I am also not sure what you mean he'd be regressing from. He's got a good batter's eye and a quiet swing. He will be light-hitting, but remember too, this is a guy who posted some of the lowest K-rates in the minors in the entire Sox system, and had the best K:BB rates in the system multiple years.

 

And you can't tell much about someone's framing in 30-ish games.

 

Not but he hit homers. Framed well. Those are 2 things Navaraez doesn't do yet. He was released a time or two IIRC. Framing obviously wasn't a thing for most of his career, but I think a good one leads to better results, and that helped him.

 

If you are a good guy and a decent defensive catcher, I agree, you can last a long time as a back up, but those guys usually bounce around quite a bit.

 

Narvaez won't hit homers. But given his other defensive skills he's likely to improve in the framing department. Flowers wasn't good at it when he reached the majors either.

 

He wasn't released - the Sox got him in the MiLB Rule 5. It was just a reserve roster protection numbers game.

 

I don't think Narvaez is a starter, but I do think he's a competent MLB backup C.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I saw Navarez in his MLB debut and was impressed with that showing. He seemed to hit well from the left side and was able to square up a couple hits that game. On a rebuilding team, he's a fine backup and a whatever starter.

FYI, he now ONLY hits from the left side. Dropped switch-hitting a couple years ago. If that's what you were referring to.

 

[flavum]

You say Navarez, and I say Narvaez...

 

[Dick Allen]

Not sure why you'd think a 24-year old would regress offensively. But I am also not sure what you mean he'd be regressing from. He's got a good batter's eye and a quiet swing. He will be light-hitting, but remember too, this is a guy who posted some of the lowest K-rates in the minors in the entire Sox system, and had the best K:BB rates in the system multiple years.

 

And you can't tell much about someone's framing in 30-ish games.

 

 

 

Narvaez won't hit homers. But given his other defensive skills he's likely to improve in the framing department. Flowers wasn't good at it when he reached the majors either.

 

He wasn't released - the Sox got him in the MiLB Rule 5. It was just a reserve roster protection numbers game.

 

I don't think Narvaez is a starter, but I do think he's a competent MLB backup C.

I was talking about Ross being released. Narvaez had better offensive numbers last year with the Sox than he did at AA and AAA. That's why I feel he will regress, and ultimately won't hit enough to be a back up on a good team. I really doubt he has a .350 OBP again.

[southsider2k5]

Not sure why you'd think a 24-year old would regress offensively. But I am also not sure what you mean he'd be regressing from. He's got a good batter's eye and a quiet swing. He will be light-hitting, but remember too, this is a guy who posted some of the lowest K-rates in the minors in the entire Sox system, and had the best K:BB rates in the system multiple years.

 

And you can't tell much about someone's framing in 30-ish games.

 

 

 

Narvaez won't hit homers. But given his other defensive skills he's likely to improve in the framing department. Flowers wasn't good at it when he reached the majors either.

 

He wasn't released - the Sox got him in the MiLB Rule 5. It was just a reserve roster protection numbers game.

I don't think Narvaez is a starter, but I do think he's a competent MLB backup C.

 

Yeah, I don't think he will hit enough to be a #1, but I liked the work he did behind the plate, and the game he called.

[Dick Allen]

We will see. Adrian Nieto looked like a decent back up catcher a couple of years ago.

[ptatc]

Not but he hit homers. Framed well. Those are 2 things Navaraez doesn't do yet. He was released a time or two IIRC. Framing obviously wasn't a thing for most of his career, but I think a good one leads to better results, and that helped him.

 

 

If you are a good guy and a decent defensive catcher, I agree, you can last a long time as a back up, but those guys usually bounce around quite a bit.

no doubt. Good receivers will last a long time in the league. i think Navarez can be one.

[ptatc]

We will see. Adrian Nieto looked like a decent back up catcher a couple of years ago.

I recall nieto struggling defensively. He wouldn't make a good backup, if so.

[steveno89]

We will see. Adrian Nieto looked like a decent back up catcher a couple of years ago.

 

Nobody is saying that Narvaez is the answer at catcher, but I think he could be a decent backup option. He seems to be roughly average defensively, and his bat was decent in his 34 game showing in 2016.

 

He has done enough to be given at least a platoon shot in 2017

[NorthSideSox72]

We will see. Adrian Nieto looked like a decent back up catcher a couple of years ago.

He really didn't. I mean, apparently the Sox thought he'd be competent enough to hide him for a year to send back to the minors. But just about everyone I spoke with about him said he wasn't nearly ready yet and his development would be stunted, which is what happened.

 

Narvaez could turn out to be a disaster - it happens. But my personal view is that he can be a good backup C in the majors, starting in 2017.

 

[steveno89]

He really didn't. I mean, apparently the Sox thought he'd be competent enough to hide him for a year to send back to the minors. But just about everyone I spoke with about him said he wasn't nearly ready yet and his development would be stunted, which is what happened.

 

Narvaez could turn out to be a disaster - it happens. But my personal view is that he can be a good backup C in the majors, starting in 2017.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/omar-narvaez/

 

Narvaez is only going to be 25 years old and is cheaply controlled

 

If he can provide a serviceable backup/platoon option for us that would be gravy

 

Collins needs at least a full season in the minors behind the dish before we can even consider calling him up

[Dam8610]

I was talking about Ross being released. Narvaez had better offensive numbers last year with the Sox than he did at AA and AAA. That's why I feel he will regress, and ultimately won't hit enough to be a back up on a good team. I really doubt he has a .350 OBP again.

 

Isn't a .700 OPS C considered good and a borderline starter? Because that doesn't seem like an impossible line for him, maybe something like .270/.340/.360, which doesn't seem implausible. Combine that with good D and framing, and I think he's at least worth a look. Worst case, he gets you closer to the #1 overall pick in 2018.

 

[steveno89]

Isn't a .700 OPS C considered good and a borderline starter? Because that doesn't seem like an impossible line for him, maybe something like .270/.340/.360, which doesn't seem implausible. Combine that with good D and framing, and I think he's at least worth a look. Worst case, he gets you closer to the #1 overall pick in 2018.

 

If he puts up a .270/.340/.360 line that would be outstanding

 

Most catchers are just asked to play solid defense and have a reasonable bat