ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:25 PM) Scouts really don't like Weaver. Flaherty is more intriguing That's fine, even more of a chance the trade happens then. Weaver has been getting great results though. Scouting from the boxscore, he's got a 9.9 K/9 to a 1.7 BB/9 in AAA, and in the PCL, no less. Also only 3 HR allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 08:23 PM) :lol: You CAN NOT be serious. Laugh all you want, Joe. But it's June 17 and he's leading the League in hitting and is top 7 in OPS as a 26 year old. What the f*** are you trading him for a top 60 prospect? I know it's almost surreal to be having this discussion right now, but you're nuts if you do that given our current position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:29 PM) Laugh all you want, Joe. But it's June 17 and he's leading the League in hitting and is top 7 in OPS as a 26 year old. What the f*** are you trading him for a top 60 prospect? I know it's almost surreal to be having this discussion right now, but you're nuts if you do that given our current position. I'm willing to make bets with anyone who thinks he will finish the season over .300 batting average. He's been good, but he's not good. I refuse to believe he's anything better than an ok player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 08:36 PM) I'm willing to make bets with anyone who thinks he will finish the season over .300 batting average. He's been good, but he's not good. I refuse to believe he's anything better than an ok player. Define the bolded a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I'd be more inclined to keeping him if he had over 2 years of control. Trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I think Cafardo is making stuff up here. Assuming he's not, yeah trade him now for anything you can get. I'm not a believer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:37 PM) Define the bolded a bit more. I would value him as a 2-win, average mlb player. Not a 4+ WAR All-star, and certainly not a 6+ WAR superstar. Edited June 18, 2017 by ChiliIrishHammock24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 He would surely be open to listening to a contract extension offer. 19th best fWAR in baseball despite negative defensive values, on pace for a 4.5-5.5 war season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I am also on the 'trade him' bandwagon as long as the price is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:40 PM) I would value him as a 2-win, replacement level player. Not a 4+ WAR All-star, and certainly not a 6+ WAR superstar. 2 win is an average player, more or less. Replacement level would denote 0-1 WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (daggins @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:43 PM) 2 win is an average player, more or less. Replacement level would denote 0-1 WAR. Sorry, you're right, replacement level is 0. I meant MLB average player, but was thinking in my head that I was going to say he is easily replaceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 08:40 PM) I would value him as a 2-win, replacement level player. Not a 4+ WAR All-star, and certainly not a 6+ WAR superstar. So given that fact that we are in a pretty good position from a SP standpoint, and we finally have a young position player that is producing with the bat, you'd trade him for a top 75ish prospect today? That's extremely, extremely conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:44 PM) So given that fact that we are in a pretty good position from a SP standpoint, and we finally have a young position player that is producing with the bat, you'd trade him for a top 75ish prospect today? That's extremely, extremely conservative. In a heartbeat. I don't believe in him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 08:45 PM) In a heartbeat. I don't believe in him at all. Fair enough, but have you been watching his PAs? I understand not being sold on THIS version of Avi, but I don't understand how you can say you "don't believe in him at all." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:49 PM) Fair enough, but have you been watching his PAs? I understand not being sold on THIS version of Avi, but I don't understand how you can say you "don't believe in him at all." I haven't gotten to watch as many games this year as I have in previous years, but I don't see anything that stands out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 08:53 PM) I haven't gotten to watch as many games this year as I have in previous years, but I don't see anything that stands out. He's top 12 in offensive fwar, and you don't think anything stands out? Are we attributing this all to his BABIP? Cmon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:53 PM) I haven't gotten to watch as many games this year as I have in previous years, but I don't see anything that stands out. lol....geezus...seriously? tough crowd. Just what would impress you?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 08:53 PM) I haven't gotten to watch as many games this year as I have in previous years, but I don't see anything that stands out. Hmm I don't know that .458 batting average against left handers that leads the league doesn't stand out to you ? How about that he's also leading the league in 3 hit games ? Any way so what kind of bet can we make about him finishing at .300 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 10:55 PM) He's top 12 in offensive fwar, and you don't think anything stands out? Are we attributing this all to his BABIP? Cmon. I didn't say his RESULTS haven't stood out. But he doesn't look any different to me at the plate. And I can't even say he's swinging at less junk, because he's actually swinging at more pitches outside of the zone this year than last year, or his career average. He is, however, making contact with a LOT more of those pitches outside the zone than last year, even if he's swinging at them. So maybe this year he is turning strikeouts in to foul balls. Digging in to the numbers a bit, he has actually made a complete change in his results against fastballs. So maybe he quickened up his swing to be able to catch up to fastballs, and that's been the difference. If he finishes up the year hitting .325+ with 20+ homers and a 4+ WAR, then I'll at least buy in to trading him for a decent package, but as of now, I can't see any GM giving up a collection of talent based on 64 outlier games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 11:00 PM) lol....geezus...seriously? tough crowd. Just what would impress you?.... Adequate sample size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 11:03 PM) Any way so what kind of bet can we make about him finishing at .300 ? You like Portillos? Venmo me the cost of a big beef, dipped, with hot peppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 09:03 PM) Hmm I don't know that .458 batting average against left handers that leads the league doesn't stand out to you ? How about that he's also leading the league in 3 hit games ? Any way so what kind of bet can we make about him finishing at .300 ? So interestingly enough, they did a poll in one of the games against the Orioles, I think it was Thursday's game, and as a result, Jason asked Steve where he thought Avisail would end up, in terms of batting average. While Stone is usually pretty careful about saying anything too critical of White Sox players, he said something like "If he continues to hit the ball hard to all fields, he may certainly end up around .310 or .315. So obviously Stone is aware of the BABIP and the expected regression...but it was almost the way he hesitated and then qualified his statement that made me suspect even he really doesn't know what to expect out of Avi. No question about it, we are all trying to determine just what we have on our hands here. And as I have said several times now in the last few months, I was as big of a doubter of Avisail as you could find, save maybe Eminor, but I would not be selling him off just to add some top 100 prospect at this point. I'd need something to make me say well, if I am wrong, and he continues to be a middle of the order bat all the sudden, I will feel comfortable with the pieces I received in return. I'd say the odds of that happening this summer are slim to none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 18, 2017 -> 03:25 AM) : I wouldn't even give Avi all-star value, let alone superstar. Come on people, let's not pretend he's suddenly a 4 WAR player. There is too much of a sample size that says he sucks to think he's suddenly a superstar. He's 26 years old. This might be the real Avi. QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 18, 2017 -> 03:45 AM) In a heartbeat. I don't believe in him at all. Wow. I'm assuming you are high on all the minor leaguers that are projected to be good someday. You like anybody on the big league roster not named Anderson? QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 18, 2017 -> 04:00 AM) lol....geezus...seriously? tough crowd. Just what would impress you?.... Exactly. Tough tough crowd. It's mid June and he's got a ton of RBI and hitting .325. Congrats, Avi. Keep it up, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) I already did this in another thread, but there isn't a massive shift in any area of Avi's numbers except two places - Pull % and BABIP. The pull % might lead me to believe he's picking his spots better, but instead he's swinging more, both in and out of the zone. So its hard to tell if he's for real or not. I don't think the Cards (or any other team) will give us much for him now, so it benefits Hahn to wait until the end of the season to see. If he finishes with a SLG over 500 and WAR north of 4, hell yeah, trade his ass ASAP. Teams will buy that, and it's not like he'll give us a discount to play here after 2019. Edited June 18, 2017 by daggins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 09:06 PM) I didn't say his RESULTS haven't stood out. But he doesn't look any different to me at the plate. And I can't even say he's swinging at less junk, because he's actually swinging at more pitches outside of the zone this year than last year, or his career average. He is, however, making contact with a LOT more of those pitches outside the zone than last year, even if he's swinging at them. So maybe this year he is turning strikeouts in to foul balls. Digging in to the numbers a bit, he has actually made a complete change in his results against fastballs. So maybe he quickened up his swing to be able to catch up to fastballs, and that's been the difference. If he finishes up the year hitting .325+ with 20+ homers and a 4+ WAR, then I'll at least buy in to trading him for a decent package, but as of now, I can't see any GM giving up a collection of talent based on 64 outlier games. Yeah, I know what you are saying, but again, 65 games isn't such a miniscule sample that you can fake your way to the results he has produced. He's been hanging ropes out for a good portion of the season. Compared to where he was coming from over the past few years, you're just being stubborn if you're telling me even just the appearance of his PAs this season isn't entirely different looking than they have been in the past. The first 2-3 weeks I'd have to do a double take and be like, wait, was that Jose or Avisail?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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