Frazier to Boston Rumors getting heavy

[Chicago White Sox]

Our system still lacks positional depth, so when trading our secondary assets, getting the best return is all that really matters. The only real exception is when adding a player directly impacts another quality prospect's playing time and/or development. I'd avoid adding another A ball OF at this point (if possible), because we're absolutely loaded at those levels with interesting prospects and such a move would force someone to the bench. Having said that, I'd sure as hell take one at AA or above.

 

At the end of the day, we need waves and waves of talent to offset the natural attrition of prospects.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

The only thing you have to watch out for is if you get to the point where they are all at the same point in their development curve and you don't have enough affiliates to get them reps/PAs.

 

I don't know where exactly these guys are, but I am sure it's something we would be cognizant of.

Lol...wish I had would have saw this before I made my post, because I completely agree.

[iamshack]

Lol...wish I had would have saw this before I made my post, because I completely agree.

Great minds

[steveno89]

I watched something the other day, the do not want to call up Devers. They called on Moncada last year and it didn't work out so well. Maybe next season, that is why Frazier's rental status is more appealing.

 

Devers is unlikely to get called up in 2017. He's only 20 years old and still has a ways to go defensively after committing 13 errors in 66 games.

[Chicago White Sox]

What's funny is how many Red Sox fans would rather not acquire Frazier and stick with what they got. IMO, he's a huge upgrade at 3B for them and shouldn't cost anything of significance. And there's a non-zero chance he gets hot and can be an impact player come October. I think we've gotten to the point where most fanbases greatly overvalue their prospects. Short of the very elite, you can't be afraid to move prospects when you have a near championship caliber roster. DD gets this and that's why I'm confident he ends up with Frazier.

[Dick Allen]

They look at his average. I look at Frazier and I see a good baseball player. He knows what he is doing. Decent fielder, baserunner, at the all star break, led the league in pitches per AB. If he could hit .240-.260 everyone would love him, but it hasn't happened. I think it could the remainder of the season. His OBP isn't too bad even hitting about .210.

[shipps]

Jon Heyman‏Verified account @JonHeyman 30m30 minutes ago

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have heard redsox very much like old friend jed lowrie, too, as written before. so he's a possibility for them to play 3B as well.

[Chicago White Sox]

Jon Heyman‏Verified account @JonHeyman 30m30 minutes ago

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have heard redsox very much like old friend jed lowrie, too, as written before. so he's a possibility for them to play 3B as well.

Given Lowrie has an option year, I would imagine they'd actually want something of decent value for him.

[Lillian]

Speculation that the White Sox could be getting Groome and Chavis from Boston, for Frazier and Kahnle is a pipe dream. As you all know, the young southpaw is Boston's #2 prospect, according to MLB Pipeline, and #34 overall. Hahn has proven to be an able negotiator, but I think that is just not realistic.

[ChiSox59]

Speculation that the White Sox could be getting Groome and Chavis from Boston, for Frazier and Kahnle is a pipe dream. As you all know, the young southpaw is Boston's #2 prospect, according to MLB Pipeline, and #34 overall. Hahn has proven to be an able negotiator, but I think that is just not realistic.

 

Ehhh. Its a steep ask, but Kahnle's inclusion is going to warrant a real return. I don't think its totally unrealistic, but definitely wouldn't be Boston's first choice.

[Lillian]

21 of Boston's top 30 prospects are pitchers. There are probably some decent arms that Hahn could pry away from them, for a package of Frazier and Kahnle, but not Groome. If I'm wrong, I'd be thrilled, however I just don't see it.

[Balta1701]

Jon Heyman‏Verified account @JonHeyman 30m30 minutes ago

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have heard redsox very much like old friend jed lowrie, too, as written before. so he's a possibility for them to play 3B as well.

I don't buy Lowrie to the BoSox as anything other than posturing because they're not going to bring in someone who plays Devers' position and have him potentially blocked out of ST next year. That's not their style, nor should it be. If they slog through a month next year with a replacement level player at 3b out of ST because something slowed Devers in ST or in August and September of this year they'd be more ok with that than paying a higher price for Lowrie.

 

Frazier being only on a 1 year deal is a perfect fit for them and everyone knows it.

[GreenSox]

I don't buy Lowrie to the BoSox as anything other than posturing because they're not going to bring in someone who plays Devers' position and have him potentially blocked out of ST next year. That's not their style, nor should it be. If they slog through a month next year with a replacement level player at 3b out of ST because something slowed Devers in ST or in August and September of this year they'd be more ok with that than paying a higher price for Lowrie.

 

Frazier being only on a 1 year deal is a perfect fit for them and everyone knows it.

Lowrie can play 2nd as well. Gives them a good utility player for next year. But he has limited power, and the Red Sox need power.

Edited July 17, 2017 by GreenSox

[GGajewski18]

Lowrie can play 2nd as well. Gives them a good utility player for next year. But he has limited power, and the Red Sox need power.

 

But an expensive utility player at that when they already have Brock Holt on the roster. I agree with Balta that Lowrie doesn't make sense.

[beautox]

Regarding the speculated trades of Groome and Chavis for Frazier and Kahnle, plus Andujar from N.Y., for Robertson:

I don't know if someone has mentioned that, in addition to the overly optimistic nature of this return, it seems unlikely that our Sox would be seeking both Chavis and Andujar in these trades. That would add 2 more third basemen to our number one pick in last years draft. You could even add Matt Rose to the list, as he is considered a plus defender, at 3RD, with a power bat. Isn't that a little "overkill" at the hot corner?

 

Kahnle's return isn't optimistic at all if anything its slightly below what the market has previously dictated for relievers of his caliber; Groome had a lat issue earlier this season in addition to make up concerns and is currently ranked at 87th and Chavis is experiencing a break out of his own and ranked 96th. As it stands right now it just depends if Hahn wants to roll the dice again with a reliever, he has seen similar situations play out before with Crain and Jones but if he does I expect next deadline provided Kahnle produces to bring back two prospects in the 60-100 range and a lotto ticket. Frazier himself should bring back Ockimey & Mata as it stands so that return for both is light.

 

If Robertson is moved to the Yankees I doubt they go after Andujar or that the yankees move him; Mateo makes too much sense for a number of reasons for both clubs; he is behind their top prospects at every position, and even further down the line if he his moved to the OF, currently taking up space on the 40 man and that is going to be a crunch going forward and he is experiencing a resurgence in AA so it makes sense to sell high after his mediocre stint at A+ this year. For the sox he gives them an interesting option if in the next 2 years Anderson can't get it together at the major league level. Abreu as the second piece makes sense as well because of his distance to the show and he is going to eat up another 40 man spot this offseason.

 

for the rest of the season the projection systems are expecting Frazier to produce another .9-1.2WAR and if you go by fangraphs values for prospect ratings he should be worth a 45FV hitter or 45-50FV pitcher.

 

Kahnle is currently 27 is projected between .3-.5WAR for the rest of the season, if you project him to produce 4.5WAR(1.5 per) over his next three years before he is a FA his value not including his salary is roughly 44.6M including the remainder of this year and it doesn't factor in a potential comp pick as the next cba isn't till '21. Take all that into account and I feel some on this board are severely underrating his value.

[Balta1701]

Kahnle's return isn't optimistic at all if anything its slightly below what the market has previously dictated for relievers of his caliber; Groome had a lat issue earlier this season in addition to make up concerns and is currently ranked at 87th and Chavis is experiencing a break out of his own and ranked 96th. As it stands right now it just depends if Hahn wants to roll the dice again with a reliever, he has seen similar situations play out before with Crain and Jones but if he does I expect next deadline provided Kahnle produces to bring back two prospects in the 60-100 range and a lotto ticket. Frazier himself should bring back Ockimey & Mata as it stands so that return for both is light.

 

If Robertson is moved to the Yankees I doubt they go after Andujar or that the yankees move him; Mateo makes too much sense for a number of reasons for both clubs; he is behind their top prospects at every position, and even further down the line if he his moved to the OF, currently taking up space on the 40 man and that is going to be a crunch going forward and he is experiencing a resurgence in AA so it makes sense to sell high after his mediocre stint at A+ this year. For the sox he gives them an interesting option if in the next 2 years Anderson can't get it together at the major league level. Abreu as the second piece makes sense as well because of his distance to the show and he is going to eat up another 40 man spot this offseason.

 

for the rest of the season the projection systems are expecting Frazier to produce another .9-1.2WAR and if you go by fangraphs values for prospect ratings he should be worth a 45FV hitter or 45-50FV pitcher.

 

Kahnle is currently 27 is projected between .3-.5WAR for the rest of the season, if you project him to produce 4.5WAR(1.5 per) over his next three years before he is a FA his value not including his salary is roughly 44.6M including the remainder of this year and it doesn't factor in a potential comp pick as the next cba isn't till '21. Take all that into account and I feel some on this board are severely underrating his value.

The bolded is the rub. You're not making him Andrew Miller from 2016-2017, but you're making him an elite pitcher and saying he will stay there. Some guys who will probably put up that number for the full season include ~Wade Davis, Brad Hand, Ryan Madson. 1.5 WAR each year means he's a top 30 reliever in baseball each of the next 3 years, and it only takes a small step for him to be top 10.

 

The big question we all are struggling with in trying to determine his trade value is whether or not that is true. If you think he's a 1.5 WAR+ reliever each of the next 3 years, then I think the people who are saying we should hold him are probably right - I have serious doubts about whether we'll get that quality of return for him and wait until 2018 to move him once he's established that this is really who he is.

[Lillian]

Kahnle's return isn't optimistic at all if anything its slightly below what the market has previously dictated for relievers of his caliber; Groome had a lat issue earlier this season in addition to make up concerns and is currently ranked at 87th and Chavis is experiencing a break out of his own and ranked 96th. As it stands right now it just depends if Hahn wants to roll the dice again with a reliever, he has seen similar situations play out before with Crain and Jones but if he does I expect next deadline provided Kahnle produces to bring back two prospects in the 60-100 range and a lotto ticket. Frazier himself should bring back Ockimey & Mata as it stands so that return for both is light.

 

If Robertson is moved to the Yankees I doubt they go after Andujar or that the yankees move him; Mateo makes too much sense for a number of reasons for both clubs; he is behind their top prospects at every position, and even further down the line if he his moved to the OF, currently taking up space on the 40 man and that is going to be a crunch going forward and he is experiencing a resurgence in AA so it makes sense to sell high after his mediocre stint at A+ this year. For the sox he gives them an interesting option if in the next 2 years Anderson can't get it together at the major league level. Abreu as the second piece makes sense as well because of his distance to the show and he is going to eat up another 40 man spot this offseason.

 

for the rest of the season the projection systems are expecting Frazier to produce another .9-1.2WAR and if you go by fangraphs values for prospect ratings he should be worth a 45FV hitter or 45-50FV pitcher.

 

Kahnle is currently 27 is projected between .3-.5WAR for the rest of the season, if you project him to produce 4.5WAR(1.5 per) over his next three years before he is a FA his value not including his salary is roughly 44.6M including the remainder of this year and it doesn't factor in a potential comp pick as the next cba isn't till '21. Take all that into account and I feel some on this board are severely underrating his value.

 

Thank you for the information on Groome. I was not aware of his negatives.

I also agree with you about Mateo being a better target than Andujar. Mateo is the guy, for whom I've been hoping.

[beautox]

The bolded is the rub. You're not making him Andrew Miller from 2016-2017, but you're making him an elite pitcher and saying he will stay there. Some guys who will probably put up that number for the full season include ~Wade Davis, Brad Hand, Ryan Madson. 1.5 WAR each year means he's a top 30 reliever in baseball each of the next 3 years, and it only takes a small step for him to be top 10.

 

The big question we all are struggling with in trying to determine his trade value is whether or not that is true. If you think he's a 1.5 WAR+ reliever each of the next 3 years, then I think the people who are saying we should hold him are probably right - I have serious doubts about whether we'll get that quality of return for him and wait until 2018 to move him once he's established that this is really who he is.

 

I agree that comes down to if you buy into his peripherals and his age. Miller was 29 when he broke out and became elite, Tommy is 27. 4.5WAR over three years is a mid point he could be more or he could flame out and continue to be a guy organizations bank on breaking out. If the sox sell him this deadline and the return was Chavis and Groome I wouldn't be mad by any stretch as Hahn might choose to be risk adverse with him, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Hahn hold onto him and try and extract an even larger return in the offseason or the next deadline.

[iamshack]

Bird's ankle needs surgery, so the Yank's definitely may have some incentive to explore Frazier.

 

I really like the idea of packaging a reliever with Frazier and sending them to one of the AL East teams.

 

More to like in NY, IMO, and I think their 40-man crunch may make this an easier decision for them than it is for Boston to give up a guy like Chatham or Chavis.

[pmb0928]

I agree that comes down to if you buy into his peripherals and his age. Miller was 29 when he broke out and became elite, Tommy is 27. 4.5WAR over three years is a mid point he could be more or he could flame out and continue to be a guy organizations bank on breaking out. If the sox sell him this deadline and the return was Chavis and Groome I wouldn't be mad by any stretch as Hahn might choose to be risk adverse with him, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Hahn hold onto him and try and extract an even larger return in the offseason or the next deadline.

 

If you dont get what you want with Kahnle you have to hold onto him. Yes you take a risk of him falling apart but you take the same risk of a prospect never making it to the big leagues. If you want and he still is pitching well you trade him next year. I dont see the rush to get rid of him, he is young enough to be a closer of the future for us. Burdi hasnt exactly lit the world on fire in the minors and now needs TJS.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

How about Frazier, Robertson and Anderson to Yankees for Torres.

[iamshack]

How about Frazier, Robertson and Anderson to Yankees for Torres.

They won't have any interest in Anderson.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

They won't have any interest in Anderson.

I figured he could take Torres' place in AAA.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

I figured he could take Torres' place in AAA.

Hefty paycheck for a triple A shortstop.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Hefty paycheck for a triple A shortstop.

Sox could send some money, they have a small payroll anyway. Plus, the Yankees are loaded.