Sox not in teams watching Otani

[Bob Sacamano]

Otani to Sox talk seems extremely moot.

[hi8is]

Otani to Sox talk seems extremely moot.

Lets shoot for 800 pages this time!

[witesoxfan]

Frankly, the best case scenario for the White Sox is that he signs somewhere, gets hurt or flops, and the Sox take a chance on him and he rebounds.

[southsider2k5]

However in the scenario I mentioned about Otani being an instant success as a hitter and pitcher there would be literally no one to compare him. In that kind of 1st year while paying him minimum wage MLB salary and the 300K bonus the Sox stand to make millions of dollars in endorsements and at the box office. He would be unlike any kind of 1st year player ever if he can be a successful 2 way player. Therefore it is reasonable to assume a contract extension that was uniquely structured would not be out of line based on his unique situation. They would simply be paying him what he is worth to the franchise.

 

There is zero chance they let a $100 million contract happen after a 1st year. Even Mike Trout didn't get a $100 million contract until his 3rd year of baseball, and that is with two and a half years of MVP numbers first.

[Harry Chappas]

Does he go through the posting process?

 

If so,

 

Don't teams have to bid on him and the $300K/$10M is not the issue but who gives the most money to this controlling team to win the bid similar to Tanaka.

 

Can it have been written in a contract somewhere that he splits that fee 50/50?

 

Can this fee be $100M?

 

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

+1

How could you +1 that ? It's like saying let's just give up . The Otani situation is unique in that he will not get big bucks for his 1st year. It would be ludicrous not to make every attempt to pursue him.

[southsider2k5]

Does he go through the posting process?

 

If so,

 

Don't teams have to bid on him and the $300K/$10M is not the issue but who gives the most money to this controlling team to win the bid similar to Tanaka.

 

Can it have been written in a contract somewhere that he splits that fee 50/50?

 

Can this fee be $100M?

 

The fee is now capped at $20m. I would imagine pretty much every team in baseball will bid that so they can negotiate with them.

[witesoxfan]

Does he go through the posting process?

 

If so,

 

Don't teams have to bid on him and the $300K/$10M is not the issue but who gives the most money to this controlling team to win the bid similar to Tanaka.

 

Can it have been written in a contract somewhere that he splits that fee 50/50?

 

Can this fee be $100M?

 

The posting fee is a max of $20 million. Any and all teams will put up the $20 million, at which point he is able to negotiate with said teams. However, because of his age, there are limits as to what teams can give him as a bonus, unlike Tanaka, who was 25 when he signed his contract.

[bmags]

I thought I heard in order to get Otani in the first place his team promised that they would not put a large posting fee when he decided to go stateside.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Does he go through the posting process?

 

If so,

 

Don't teams have to bid on him and the $300K/$10M is not the issue but who gives the most money to this controlling team to win the bid similar to Tanaka.

 

Can it have been written in a contract somewhere that he splits that fee 50/50?

 

Can this fee be $100M?

I answered that above somewhere. Posting fee is currently $20M and may change but not expected to be by much.

[Bob Sacamano]

How could you +1 that ? It's like saying let's just give up . The Otani situation is unique in that he will not get big bucks for his 1st year. It would be ludicrous not to make every attempt to pursue him.

 

It's not "giving up." It's realizing they likely aren't going to get him. The White Sox aren't even scouting him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

There is zero chance they let a $100 million contract happen after a 1st year. Even Mike Trout didn't get a $100 million contract until his 3rd year of baseball, and that is with two and a half years of MVP numbers first.

You are the only one saying $100M . I certainly never said it. I just said a contract more than Andersons. Do you think 3 years $40-60M would be voided with an opt out to become a free agent ? I mean we can go through all kinds of uniquely structured deals that would not kill the Sox and gives Otani free agency after a few years.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It's not "giving up." It's realizing they likely aren't going to get him. The White Sox aren't even scouting him.

Just because you read the Sox aren't scouting him doesn't mean its true. I'm sure they have loads of current video on him .and are well aware of the unique position any team is in to get him without paying him a great deal. It would be negligence not to throw their hat in the ring. It is more likely the Sox make some effort than no effort at all. No front office in their right mind just realizes they won't get him . That would be a terrible way to run a ball club.

[hi8is]

How could you +1 that ? It's like saying let's just give up . The Otani situation is unique in that he will not get big bucks for his 1st year. It would be ludicrous not to make every attempt to pursue him.

It's just the truth man - our chances of signing him are pretty much 0 when stacked up against other options. I'm sure that we'll put our best most creative foot forward but my expectations are not high that he'll even consider us a contender for a landing spot.

[southsider2k5]

You are the only one saying $100M . I certainly never said it. I just said a contract more than Andersons. Do you think 3 years $40-60M would be voided with an opt out to become a free agent ? I mean we can go through all kinds of uniquely structured deals that would not kill the Sox and gives Otani free agency after a few years.

 

3 years? Absolutely. Any deal is going to have to follow closely to the historicals of what players get paid around baseball in years 1-6 based on their performance. No players are going to get paid more than $5 million for their first three years of major league service. Again, it is all about the comps.

 

Players make half a million or SLIGHTLY above it their first year. They might get a bit more than that their second year, but even the top players are going to make about a million dollars their second year. Mike Trout made $510k his second full year, and $1 million for his 3rd. That is about $2 million total for one of the best first three years in MLB history. Tim Anderson who signed a super early extension to get some money up front is getting $850k for his first full year, $1 mil for his second year, and $1.4 for his third. That is slightly over $3 million for his first three full years.

 

A 3/40 deal in his first year would be thrown out quick. You'd need a deal of AT LEAST six years to be able to argue for a $40 million contract.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Otani to Sox talk seems extremely moot.

To you it's moot and I will agree it's unlikely the Sox get him but why not the Sox? It is certainly worth debating the pros and cons of this very unique situation where the money makes no difference and all teams have a shot. Sure maybe not all teams in Otani's mind but hell all you have to do is see Cespedes signed with Oakland of all teams to understand stranger things have happened.

[hi8is]

3 years? Absolutely. Any deal is going to have to follow closely to the historicals of what players get paid around baseball in years 1-6 based on their performance. No players are going to get paid more than $5 million for their first three years of major league service. Again, it is all about the comps.

 

Players make half a million or SLIGHTLY above it their first year. They might get a bit more than that their second year, but even the top players are going to make about a million dollars their second year. Mike Trout made $510k his second full year, and $1 million for his 3rd. That is about $2 million total for one of the best first three years in MLB history. Tim Anderson who signed a super early extension to get some money up front is getting $850k for his first full year, $1 mil for his second year, and $1.4 for his third. That is slightly over $3 million for his first three full years.

 

A 3/40 deal in his first year would be thrown out quick. You'd need a deal of AT LEAST six years to be able to argue for a $40 million contract.

Well, we did kinda set a presidence with the Anderson extension. Again thou, Otani to Sox is a Hail Mary from the top of Hail Mary Mountain.

[southsider2k5]

To you it's moot and I will agree it's unlikely the Sox get him but why not the Sox? It is certainly worth debating the pros and cons of this very unique situation where the money makes no difference and all teams have a shot. Sure maybe not all teams in Otani's mind but hell all you have to do is see Cespedes signed with Oakland of all teams to understand stranger things have happened.

 

Cespedes is a completely different situation as he had none of the restrictions that young international players have now.

[GenericUserName]

This is the ultimate lottery ticket signing. We basically have zero chance, but someone has to win it and you can't win it unless you buy the ticket. Plus, it allows fans to dream for a little while and if the FO does goes after him and fails, they can tell the fans that they did everything they could to help us contend faster which makes them look better than if they just sit out the sweepstakes.

[Bob Sacamano]

Cespedes is a completely different situation as he had none of the restrictions that young international players have now.

 

This. Cespedes was a free agent who signed a straight 4-year deal, just like any other player who gets signed when they hit free agency. Cespedes also did take the most money. Marlins offered the same amount, but over 6 years instead of the 4 that he ended up taking from the A's: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/26674580//

Edited September 13, 2017 by soxfan2014

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 years? Absolutely. Any deal is going to have to follow closely to the historicals of what players get paid around baseball in years 1-6 based on their performance. No players are going to get paid more than $5 million for their first three years of major league service. Again, it is all about the comps.

 

Players make half a million or SLIGHTLY above it their first year. They might get a bit more than that their second year, but even the top players are going to make about a million dollars their second year. Mike Trout made $510k his second full year, and $1 million for his 3rd. That is about $2 million total for one of the best first three years in MLB history. Tim Anderson who signed a super early extension to get some money up front is getting $850k for his first full year, $1 mil for his second year, and $1.4 for his third. That is slightly over $3 million for his first three full years.

 

A 3/40 deal in his first year would be thrown out quick. You'd need a deal of AT LEAST six years to be able to argue for a $40 million contract.

Oh well then we just disagree. The league is not in the habit of voiding MLB deals and probably would want to avoid it at all costs. When you throw in what a successful Otani would mean to a franchise that team could easily argue a contract I mentioned is not out of line with his value . The league would not just say we are voiding that contract without due process . The only reason a guy like Trout didn't get big money sooner is because it's rather stupid for teams togive big money to players that early because they hold all the cards for 6 years .

 

Again the Otani situation is unique and arguing over what kind of contract extension gets voided or not seem trite at this point in time. We'll see how it unfolds down the road. There's a long way to go before any team even reaches that point.

Edited September 13, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Cespedes is a completely different situation as he had none of the restrictions that young international players have now.

How easily we miss the point. I know that situation was different . The point was no one expected Oakland to sign him just as no one expects the Sox to sign Otani.

Edited September 13, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Bob Sacamano]

How easily we miss the point. I know that situation was different . The point was no one expected Oakland to sign him just as no one expects the Spx tp sign Otani.

 

Except in that situation, the A's offered the most annual salary. That's what made it a big surprise. We don't have that luxury here.

[southsider2k5]

Oh well then we just disagree. The league is not in the happen of voiding MLB deals and probably would want to avoid it at all costs. When you throw in what a successful Otani would mean to a franchise that team could easily argue a contract I mentioned is not out of line with his value . The league would not just say we are voiding that contract without due process . The only reason a guy like Trout didn't get big money sooner is because it's rather stupid for teams togive big money to players that early because they hold all the cards for 6 years .

 

Again the Otani situation is unique and arguing over what kind of contract extension gets voided or not seem trite at this point in time. We'll see how it unfolds down the road. There's a long way to go before any team even reaches that point.

 

I think you are making this out to be my opinion. There are decades of contracts that serve at the basis for what can and can't be done for Otani. He is going to be signed as a young amateur free agent. When he is brought to the majors it will be the same as if he were any other player player recalled from the minors to the majors for the first time off of an MiLB contract. MLB has already flat out stated that a team can't have a secondary deal in place for a contract that is out of line with what has been done in the past.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-this...this-offseason/

 

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[southsider2k5]

Except in that situation, the A's offered the most annual salary. That's what made it a big surprise. We don't have that luxury here.

 

This. The Sox have a snowballs shot in hell of signing Otani because they can offer him about 3% of what the top teams can offer.