What do you take from the 2017 season?

[elrockinMT]

We have some young talent ready to perform and we have some veterans who can contribute and be team leaders. We also have a weakness to shore up in the bullpen. I think the emphasis on playing hard all the time was also instilled

[caulfield12]

Anderson looking like a keeper again the second half

Guys like Kahnle and Swarzak excelling...Robertson returning value

All the “scrubs” like Yolmer, Avi, Davidson, Leury and Omar/K.Smith surprisingly pulling their weight

Watching Delmonico and Moncada hit (well, LH at least)

Seeing some encouraging glimpses from Fulmer

Lopez and especially Giolito flashing as well

Abreu returning at least to 2015 form

Q recovering and returning Jimenez/Cease

Robert acquisition

Dominance of Kopech, and Hansen/Dunning for long stretches

 

Rodon, Rodon, Rodon...

Zach Collins, although the offensive numbers appear a bit less awful than they were perceived to be

Missing out on all our top picks in the draft...although Burger seems to be a pleasant surprise so far

Having to watch so many Holland, Pelfrey, Gonzalez and Shields starts

Dylan Covey miss, not unlike Nieto

Fernando Tatis, Jr., looking like a future superstar at a key position

Losing a Top 3 pick the final two months...of course, partially due to prospects overperforming like Delmonico and Giolito

The bullpen...mostly self-inflicted due to trades

Wondering if it would have been better to hold onto Kahnle, Rutherford not lighting it up

 

 

Maybe the best part for me was the excitement of knowing we could outcompete the Cardinals for a top prospect and legitimately being able to acquire almost any top prospect in baseball with Sale, Eaton and Q the last calendar year...learning other teams’ systems inside and out, compared to always being ranked in mid 20’s

 

Attendance/excitement/buy-in from fanbase held up pretty darned well in Year 1...next year is the biggest concern, along with the Twins and Indians

 

 

[Dam8610]

Guys remember, this season was the easy one as a fan. We knew we were gonna suck and wanted to lose on purpose for a top pick, so it felt like we were winning. This season was also exciting because it was the teardown and waiting for big trades got us through it. I'm telling you guys now, next season is gonna be not so fun. We will see progress but in terms of excitement we wont have as much anticipation. That being said, this will be a wild card team in 2019 and a Champion in 2020!

 

Next season is a no lose as well. Developmental struggles mean a higher draft pick, and if things go as well developmentally next year as they did this year, we may have an outside shot at a Wild Card and a team that flirts with .500 all year, clearly indicating that they'll be ready to take the next step in 2019. Beyond next year is when anxiety may set in, but I have about the same level of expectations for the 2018 team as I did for the 2017 team.

[kitekrazy]

I liked watching the guys running hard down to first.

 

The other thing I noticed is this team is fast.

 

I still can't stand the pen.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

So much good. 1st and foremost Avi .Awesome season

Abreu looked so much better this year than the last few . Both he and Avi cut down on the K's .

Yolmer, Leury Mo O, mo D

Nicky D. Wow he he something when hr 1st game up. On base every game hitting HR's ; Walks, power and for a time batting averagwe, Finished dtyrong except for the late injury

Moncada. thank God Abreu suggested the lighter bat and he turned things around. Not bad in the field either. Made some spectacular plays. Runs like the wind.

Anderson's badness turned into goodness as he put the death of his buddy behind him. Started stealing bases too the 2nd half and was very good at it.

Davidson did OK couple of walk off HR's. Maybe he gets better.

Really couldn't have asked for better from Giolito and Lopez . SOme may quibble with this but I saw a lot to be impressed about.

The trades brought in more talent. Eloy damn !! I'm forgetting Q already sorry to say.

Even the bullpen started performing well the last couple weeks of the season , might even have a few usable pieces there.

 

Signing Robert with a contribution from Renteria .

Over all very pleased with Renteria . The Sox dugout was lively, Abreu stepped up into a leadership role. Bilingual manager is the wave of the future. Good communicator. Even slowed down on the bunts and started stealing bases which I was begging for. Renteria gets a B+ .

 

Without naming names . The minor league top talent performed very well.

 

Next year should be very interesting.

[Rowand44]

But, he had 100 more collegiate innings than Chris Sale.

 

 

Like I said earlier, I didn't see him having any evidence of getting his S*** together - I saw the same sort of occasionally dominant run we've seen down the stretch the last 2 years. But on August 26, he went out against Detroit, gave up 5 runs and a couple HR. A few weeks of occasional dominance when the slider is on, then bad games he can't overcome when he doesn't have his best stuff.

There wasn't enough evidence this season to determine anything. He struggled when he was going through his Spring Training period then went on a pretty damn dominant run before making a bad start which happens to everyone. If you've decided that a 24 year old can't improve then that's fine but I think he's close to getting to where he needs to be. This of course is all dependent on health which once again is a big if at the moment.

[Balta1701]

There wasn't enough evidence this season to determine anything. He struggled when he was going through his Spring Training period then went on a pretty damn dominant run before making a bad start which happens to everyone. If you've decided that a 24 year old can't improve then that's fine but I think he's close to getting to where he needs to be. This of course is all dependent on health which once again is a big if at the moment.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that injury aside, he hasn't improved much at all between ages 22 and 24, and that alone would be disappointing even without shoulder surgery.

[Eminor3rd]

I've got a lot of concerns about Giolito. I understand why the broadcasters are trying to sell that 2.38 ERA, but I'm finding it very hard to buy, as it comes next to a 4.94 FIP, .189 BABIP, and a staggering 92% LOB rate. The only positives I can see are the 2.38 BB/9 rate and the fact that his homerun rate looks about where it should be, or maybe a touch high even, which at least suggests he wasn't getting lucky there.

 

That said, I had the opportunity to watch him live and up close when was in Lehigh shortly before his call-up, and from that look and what I saw on TV, I remain mystified that his stuff isn't leading to better results. The curveball, especially, is stunning up close -- but I guess that we've always known the problem is with the fastball, despite its velocity.

 

He's an enigma; he scares me.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Eminor3rd

[BlackSox13]

I didn't say you can't cheer, sweetheart - I just said that personally, I'll be insulted and irritated by your enjoyment. ( it's all light hearted tounge in cheek crap, man. )

 

Buck up gregeroo.

have you been watching Guy Ritchie movies?

[hi8is]

I've got a lot of concerns about Giolito. I understand why the broadcasters are trying to sell that 2.38 ERA, but I'm finding it very hard to buy, as it comes next to a 4.94 FIP, .189 BABIP, and a staggering 92% LOB rate. The only positives I can see are the 2.38 BB/9 rate and the fact that his homerun rate looks about where it should be, or maybe a touch high even, which at least suggests he wasn't getting lucky there.

 

That said, I had the opportunity to watch him live and up close when was in Lehigh shortly before his call-up, and from that look and what I saw on TV, I remain mystified that his stuff isn't leading to better results. The curveball, especially, is stunning up close -- but I guess that we've always known the problem is with the fastball, despite its velocity.

 

He's an enigma; he scares me.

Great write up, thanks - wasn't aware of those peripherals!

[hi8is]

have you been watching Guy Ritchie movies?

Behind Greg's cold worn down negative Nancy exterior, there lies a sweetheart somewhere hidden.

[BlackSox13]

Behind Greg's cold worn down negative Nancy exterior, there lies a sweetheart somewhere hidden.

Hmmm, doesn't really answer my question but OK, I'll take your word for it.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

300 innings isn't really even a lot of minor league experience if you think about it. The kid is still learning on the job.

 

You cant just keep using that excuse..

[Rowand44]

I've got a lot of concerns about Giolito. I understand why the broadcasters are trying to sell that 2.38 ERA, but I'm finding it very hard to buy, as it comes next to a 4.94 FIP, .189 BABIP, and a staggering 92% LOB rate. The only positives I can see are the 2.38 BB/9 rate and the fact that his homerun rate looks about where it should be, or maybe a touch high even, which at least suggests he wasn't getting lucky there.

 

That said, I had the opportunity to watch him live and up close when was in Lehigh shortly before his call-up, and from that look and what I saw on TV, I remain mystified that his stuff isn't leading to better results. The curveball, especially, is stunning up close -- but I guess that we've always known the problem is with the fastball, despite its velocity.

 

He's an enigma; he scares me.

This is all fair. That said, he's still very much a work in progress and he improved dramatically as the season went on. I wouldn't say he scares me as he was a 22 year old with mechanical issues that made huge strides as the season went on. But your opinion is definitely fair and valid here.

[southsider2k5]

You cant just keep using that excuse..

 

It is reality. That's why you don't see kids making the jumps like Sale and Rodon did. If it were easy enough to be an "excuse" it would happen all of the time. Just because you don't like it, doesn't change its validity.

[greg775]

I've got a lot of concerns about Giolito. I understand why the broadcasters are trying to sell that 2.38 ERA, but I'm finding it very hard to buy, as it comes next to a 4.94 FIP, .189 BABIP, and a staggering 92% LOB rate. The only positives I can see are the 2.38 BB/9 rate and the fact that his homerun rate looks about where it should be, or maybe a touch high even, which at least suggests he wasn't getting lucky there.

 

That said, I had the opportunity to watch him live and up close when was in Lehigh shortly before his call-up, and from that look and what I saw on TV, I remain mystified that his stuff isn't leading to better results. The curveball, especially, is stunning up close -- but I guess that we've always known the problem is with the fastball, despite its velocity.

 

He's an enigma; he scares me.

I remember most all posts and here's one of the reasons I'm not a rebuild guy. In various threads I've read some concern about Lopez, Giolito and Rutherford and Burger. So far haven't seen anything much negative on Moncada and Eloy who are generally regarded as stars. We know Rodon is now iffy at best with the injury. Somebody was saying Polo now looks like the key piece in the Yankee trade. Folks, this is why I hate rebuilds. Reality sort of sets in saying some of these acquisitions may suck. Not trying to be a dick, these are posts from respected posters I'm quoting.

 

Behind Greg's cold worn down negative Nancy exterior, there lies a sweetheart somewhere hidden.

I'm not a bad guy in real life. Despite my dislike of many things the Sox do, I'm not the kind of guy who would ruin the game for you if you watched it with me. Any negative stuff coming out of my mouth at the game would be in a quiet voice and coupled with hope for an eventual W that particular game. In other words, fans sitting by me would not be saying, "Get an usher." And if we discussed the team in real life I don't think my concern about the rebuild would anger you in a real life conversation. I would listen to your points and in a pretty calm way express my concerns while saying I'm hoping for the best. You know you do lose something in the translation on message boards and social media, etc. In real life I would not come across as strongly opinionated and bossy. I just want to win even though we have won one in my lifetime.

Edited October 3, 2017 by greg775

[CanOfCorn]

I remember most all posts and here's one of the reasons I'm not a rebuild guy. In various threads I've read some concern about Lopez, Giolito and Rutherford and Burger. So far haven't seen anything much negative on Moncada and Eloy who are generally regarded as stars. We know Rodon is now iffy at best with the injury. Somebody was saying Polo now looks like the key piece in the Yankee trade. Folks, this is why I hate rebuilds. Reality sort of sets in saying some of these acquisitions may suck. Not trying to be a dick, these are posts from respected posters I'm quoting.

 

 

I'm not a bad guy in real life. Despite my dislike of many things the Sox do, I'm not the kind of guy who would ruin the game for you if you watched it with me. Any negative stuff coming out of my mouth at the game would be in a quiet voice and coupled with hope for an eventual W that particular game. In other words, fans sitting by me would not be saying, "Get an usher." And if we discussed the team in real life I don't think my concern about the rebuild would anger you in a real life conversation. I would listen to your points and in a pretty calm way express my concerns while saying I'm hoping for the best. You know you do lose something in the translation on message boards and social media, etc. In real life I would not come across as strongly opinionated and bossy. I just want to win even though we have won one in my lifetime.

 

 

Not sure how many games you watched this year, but a lot of your gripes were balanced out by two things that are very important when the talent level on this team starts to creep in the upward direction, which it already is...

 

one is fight. Ricky's guys don't quit. At least this year they didn't. And that made them fun to watch. There were only a few games where I thought they were just out of it and all teams have those games. But they fought for Ricky and they fought for each other which leads me to the next point...they are, for the first time in a LONG time, having fun. I think a lot of that lies at the feet of Yolmer, as that guy can have fun at a funeral. But it seems they genuinely enjoy playing the game and with each other. The moment I realized that was the moment Avi made the catch in the RF corner and high fived the young girl. Then the videos of the guys dancing in the dugout before the game started showing up. Yolmer being Yolmer. They are loose and having fun. That makes it fun to watch.

 

It sucks when your team loses, but there's a bigger picture. This is the new MLB...tear down, rebuild, win. Tear down, rebuild, win. Kenny's retool plan doesn't work anymore unless you get lucky on drafts year over year.

[greg775]

one is fight. Ricky's guys don't quit. At least this year they didn't. And that made them fun to watch. There were only a few games where I thought they were just out of it and all teams have those games. But they fought for Ricky and they fought for each other which leads me to the next point...they are, for the first time in a LONG time, having fun. I think a lot of that lies at the feet of Yolmer, as that guy can have fun at a funeral. But it seems they genuinely enjoy playing the game and with each other. The moment I realized that was the moment Avi made the catch in the RF corner and high fived the young girl. Then the videos of the guys dancing in the dugout before the game started showing up. Yolmer being Yolmer. They are loose and having fun. That makes it fun to watch.

 

It sucks when your team loses, but there's a bigger picture. This is the new MLB...tear down, rebuild, win. Tear down, rebuild, win. Kenny's retool plan doesn't work anymore unless you get lucky on drafts year over year.

I watched some of the fun games. I do agree with you for the most part. I enjoyed the effort in "many" games I watched. I'm pretty sure Anderson scored from first on a single the other night and that was neat. Yes I did enjoy the "fun" moments, which we see because of the great Sox camerapeople on the broadcasts.

However, as devil's advocate, I think the team still blows (as of today) as evidenced by reality setting in in the last two series with Cleveland. Man we got blown away or stifled. Not much fun when the bats are dead and when we start bringing in that core of bullpen zombies.

I did feel better recently when I asked a statnik Royals fan I know what he thought of the Sox. He said, "A lot of teams have had success with the rebuild." Yes he was a bit worried. That made me feel better.

[kitekrazy]

I watched some of the fun games. I do agree with you for the most part. I enjoyed the effort in "many" games I watched. I'm pretty sure Anderson scored from first on a single the other night and that was neat. Yes I did enjoy the "fun" moments, which we see because of the great Sox camerapeople on the broadcasts.

However, as devil's advocate, I think the team still blows (as of today) as evidenced by reality setting in in the last two series with Cleveland. Man we got blown away or stifled. Not much fun when the bats are dead and when we start bringing in that core of bullpen zombies.

I did feel better recently when I asked a statnik Royals fan I know what he thought of the Sox. He said, "A lot of teams have had success with the rebuild." Yes he was a bit worried. That made me feel better.

 

Now if you could read your posts of over a year ago and see if they differ. Last year's group was only 10 games better. Unfortunately being a baseball fan takes patience if you want to build a winner the right way. Ask any Cub's fan.

 

[hi8is]

I remember most all posts and here's one of the reasons I'm not a rebuild guy. In various threads I've read some concern about Lopez, Giolito and Rutherford and Burger. So far haven't seen anything much negative on Moncada and Eloy who are generally regarded as stars. We know Rodon is now iffy at best with the injury. Somebody was saying Polo now looks like the key piece in the Yankee trade. Folks, this is why I hate rebuilds. Reality sort of sets in saying some of these acquisitions may suck. Not trying to be a dick, these are posts from respected posters I'm quoting.

Young players are gonna take their licks and have various issues to overcome. They do call it "development" for a reason and 99% of the time player progression is not linear. What's the gripe with Burger? He had a respectful debut. The only real disappointing season was Rutherford's lack of power. Even his season wasn't a total bomb. I'm confident that both of them will see vast improvements next year... and add Collins to the "likely to improve next year" crowd.

 

Lopez and Giolito both excelled late in the season so much that they forced their ways onto the major league roster.

 

Urg... I don't even know why I continue to speak logically to you about anything related to the rebuild.

 

Here, let's try something new:

 

Juda kopa leekey tradun zabetduc za, za!!! Smooch smooch wink wink honk honk smack smack.

Edited October 6, 2017 by hi8is

[greg775]

Young players are gonna take their licks and have various issues to overcome. They do call it "development" for a reason and 99% of the time player progression is not linear. What's the gripe with Burger? He had a respectful debut. The only real disappointing season was Rutherford's lack of power. Even his season wasn't a total bomb. I'm confident that both of them will see vast improvements next year... and add Collins to the "likely to improve next year" crowd.

 

Lopez and Giolito both excelled late in the season so much that they forced their ways onto the major league roster.

 

Urg... I don't even know why I continue to speak logically to you about anything related to the rebuild.

 

Here, let's try something new:

 

Juda kopa leekey tradun zabetduc za, za!!! Smooch smooch wink wink honk honk smack smack.

It wasn't me who questioned the guys I mentioned. I was talking about posts on Soxtalk. I've already read some 'concern' about Rutherford, Collins, Lopez and Burger. And of course Fulmer. And Rodon bless his soul is a ? mark now cause of injury.

I'm not the one expressing the concern. I'm feeling concern after reading the post or two wondering about those guys.

[hi8is]

It wasn't me who questioned the guys I mentioned. I was talking about posts on Soxtalk. I've already read some 'concern' about Rutherford, Collins, Lopez and Burger. And of course Fulmer. And Rodon bless his soul is a ? mark now cause of injury.

I'm not the one expressing the concern. I'm feeling concern after reading the post or two wondering about those guys.

I really should introduce you to my ex-wife... are you in the market for romance?

[witesoxfan]

It wasn't me who questioned the guys I mentioned. I was talking about posts on Soxtalk. I've already read some 'concern' about Rutherford, Collins, Lopez and Burger. And of course Fulmer. And Rodon bless his soul is a ? mark now cause of injury.

I'm not the one expressing the concern. I'm feeling concern after reading the post or two wondering about those guys.

 

You can worry yourself to death on every possible fault with every prospect or just be happy that the White Sox actually have the best farm system in the majors with actual talent up and down the system.

 

Either works, but one is a hell of a lot easier on the soul.

[greg775]

I really should introduce you to my ex-wife... are you in the market for romance?

Is that cause I don't give up easily in arguments?

[ptatc]

Now if you could read your posts of over a year ago and see if they differ. Last year's group was only 10 games better. Unfortunately being a baseball fan takes patience if you want to build a winner the right way. Ask any Cub's fan.

The sox are in trouble then. I don't think they will spend spend 155 mil on a pitcher like the cubs did for Lester.