No one, anywhere, is higher on any of Giolito/Robert/Hansen than any of Moncada/Kopech/Devers. They are not in the same tier and there's no plausible way to argue otherwise.

 

...aaaand, that's not what I was arguing. I was saying to characterize Moncada/Devers/Kopech as all being top 10 prospects at the same time with the Red Sox is blatantly incorrect.

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2...nd-britton.html

 

That doesn't say that that was offered. Just names discussed.

Thank god sometimes you have to hand it to teams who save organizations from themselves. Unless it was a 3way with NY this rumor made no sense.

 

Timetables never matched up

No one ever said the two packages were equal today. My point was 2017 Giolito/Robert/Hansen = 2016 Moncada/Kopech/Devers.

 

I still think that's wrong. Moncada was consensus 1 overall, Devers was top ten overall on many, top 20 on all. Kopech was ~50-ish usually, sure.

 

But 2017, Giolito may not even be on some top 100s. Robert and Hansen are probably ~50-ish. Some may even be lower on Robert because of his age.

I still think that's wrong. Moncada was consensus 1 overall, Devers was top ten overall on many, top 20 on all. Kopech was ~50-ish usually, sure.

 

But 2017, Giolito may not even be on some top 100s. Robert and Hansen are probably ~50-ish. Some may even be lower on Robert because of his age.

If Giolito was eligible - you really don't think he would be a top prospect?

...aaaand, that's not what I was arguing. I was saying to characterize Moncada/Devers/Kopech as all being top 10 prospects at the same time with the Red Sox is blatantly incorrect.

 

Moncada and Devers were. Devers was outside ten in some. Kopech wasn't but everyone knew he had helium. I don't know why you're arguing with me. I said these guys were "top ten types." If you're gonna nail me for whether or not some of them were LITERALLY in the ten as opposed to being just outside it, when the whole point is that those guys were a tier or two above the others being discussed, I really just don't know what you're trying to prove.

If Giolito was eligible - you really don't think he would be a top prospect?

 

He fell pretty hard going into last year in a bunch of lists -- I think there were a couple lists that left him off even then. He was back quarter in practically all the rest.

 

I know that he made it to the MLB with a good ERA, but the peripherals are downright terrifying -- and for prospect guys, that's important. I just don't know that you can look at a guy that took a second attempt at the big leagues, struck out 6 batters per nine and stuck in games thanks to a 92% strand rate and think that he's MORE promising.

 

Not at all saying he isn't a valuable prospect, but in the context of the conversation (Yelich value), a package led by GIolito in 2017 isn't in the same stratosphere as a package led by Moncada in 2016.

He fell pretty hard going into last year in a bunch of lists -- I think there were a couple lists that left him off even then. He was back quarter in practically all the rest.

 

I know that he made it to the MLB with a good ERA, but the peripherals are downright terrifying -- and for prospect guys, that's important. I just don't know that you can look at a guy that took a second attempt at the big leagues, struck out 6 batters per nine and stuck in games thanks to a 92% strand rate and think that he's MORE promising.

 

Not at all saying he isn't a valuable prospect, but in the context of the conversation (Yelich value), a package led by GIolito in 2017 isn't in the same stratosphere as a package led by Moncada in 2016.

Ah - got ya... we're on the same page then.

I still think that's wrong. Moncada was consensus 1 overall, Devers was top ten overall on many, top 20 on all. Kopech was ~50-ish usually, sure.

 

But 2017, Giolito may not even be on some top 100s. Robert and Hansen are probably ~50-ish. Some may even be lower on Robert because of his age.

I think you're really sleeping on these guys. Giolito not make a top 100 list because why? I seriously doubt he would of fallen out of the top 50s on most lists despite his slow start to the 2017 season.

 

Luis Robert was ranked 45th, 23rd, & 37th on mid-season lists (BA, MLBP, FG) based almost solely on third hand scouting reports. He's almost certainly going to rise quickly in those rankings when these evaluators finally get to see him for themselves. And what do you mean Robert might be lower because of this age?

 

Hansen is probably 50ish caliber prospect right now, but he has a ton of helium and will rise significantly with AA success.

 

I don't think your evaluations take away from your initial point, but I think you're vastly underselling the quality of a proposed Giolito/Hansen/Robert package.

Pre 2017 Giolito was

 

25 BA

12 MLB

10 BP

I think you're really sleeping on these guys. Giolito not make a top 100 list because why? I seriously doubt he would of fallen out of the top 50s on most lists despite his slow start to the 2017 season.

 

Luis Robert was ranked 45th, 23rd, & 37th on mid-season lists (BA, MLBP, FG) based almost solely on third hand scouting reports. He's almost certainly going to rise quickly in those rankings when these evaluators finally get to see him for themselves. And what do you mean Robert might be lower because of this age?

 

Hansen is probably 50ish caliber prospect right now, but he has a ton of helium and will rise significantly with AA success.

 

I don't think your evaluations take away from your initial point, but I think you're vastly underselling the quality of a proposed Giolito/Hansen/Robert package.

 

I mean, I think that's a really great package. I'm not saying it's garbage. My initial reaction is simply to the comment that it's comparable to the "desired 2016" Sale package of Moncada/Devers/Kopech, and it just isn't. That's all I'm trying to say.

Pre 2017 Giolito was

 

25 BA

12 MLB

10 BP

 

Midseason BA: 75

BP: 31

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by Eminor3rd

Midseason BA: 75

BP: 31

Yes, he was pretty bad in AAA, but he when he was traded, he was somewhere between 10-25.

Yes, he was pretty bad in AAA, but he when he was traded, he was somewhere between 10-25.

 

For sure -- but Giolito was being brought up as a potential NOW piece for Yelich, so we're talking about his current value as compared to the PAST value of the Sale package.

For sure -- but Giolito was being brought up as a potential NOW piece for Yelich, so we're talking about his current value as compared to the PAST value of the Sale package.

OK. Then I agree with you.

Dan Clark reiterated that Machado is not getting traded anymore.

 

Again - best case scenario. We let our intentions be known. We kept our guys. Let's find deep pockets next year.

For all the rumors of them not thinking they’d have a good shot at landing MM in FA without having him here. The best way to sell him on this team is to have Eloy and Kopech make the majors this year and Moncada, Giolito and Lopez show they are going to be mainstays.

For all the rumors of them not thinking they’d have a good shot at landing MM in FA without having him here. The best way to sell him on this team is to have Eloy and Kopech make the majors this year and Moncada, Giolito and Lopez show they are going to be mainstays.

 

We're not signing Machado in FA, that ship has sailed. We need to pray our guys live up to all the hype quickly and we can convince a second tier type to come here to be the icing on the cake.

We're not signing Machado in FA, that ship has sailed. We need to pray our guys live up to all the hype quickly and we can convince a second tier type to come here to be the icing on the cake.

 

I'm not suggesting we sign him, but I'm not sure how you can say that ship has sailed when Machado is a year away from free agency?

 

Any team that wants to offer the most money will get him pretty much. I do not know if that should be us.

I'm not suggesting we sign him, but I'm not sure how you can say that ship has sailed when Machado is a year away from free agency?

 

Any team that wants to offer the most money will get him pretty much. I do not know if that should be us.

 

Right. That ship most definitely has not sailed. That's not to say the Sox will offer the most doe, but I suspect that team that does will get him.

I'm not suggesting we sign him, but I'm not sure how you can say that ship has sailed when Machado is a year away from free agency?

 

Any team that wants to offer the most money will get him pretty much. I do not know if that should be us.

 

 

The problem is Hahn didn't think he could sign him in FA, hence trying to woo him first. The Sox will not overpay for him because the Big Boys are gearing up for FA and will bid to the moon. I think 5 or 6 teams will offer him almost the same contract. The Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox will ultimately win his services as they have the money and ready made teams.

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by SonofaRoache

The problem is Hahn didn't think he could sign him in FA, hence trying to woo him first. The Sox will not overpay for him because the Big Boys are gearing up for FA and will bid to the moon. I think 5 or 6 teams will offer him almost the same contract. The Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox will ultimately win his services as they have the money and ready made teams.

If that's the case, despite what you may think, they would have been left holding the bag if they traded for him. They can sell him on the same crap you think gave him a 75% chance of staying if they traded for him when they meet with him next November.

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by Dick Allen

Based on his Instagram workouts, Yolmer will hit 30 HRs while playing GG defense.

The problem is Hahn didn't think he could sign him in FA, hence trying to woo him first. The Sox will not overpay for him because the Big Boys are gearing up for FA and will bid to the moon. I think 5 or 6 teams will offer him almost the same contract. The Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox will ultimately win his services as they have the money and ready made teams.

The White Sox are going to go into next season sitting there with a team payroll of

Based on his Instagram workouts, Yolmer will hit 30 HRs while playing GG defense.

I used to see photos and videos of Alexei pumping iron and working hard in the offseason. Then the season would roll around and he still looked like he spent the entire winter on a deserted island looking for some berries.