1 hour ago, Tony said:

I think the difference is very minimal. One situation that does stand out (although not exactly the same) is Alex Gordon. From all the information we have to go off of, when Alex Gordon hit free agency, the Sox reportedly made the biggest offer. He ended up taking less to go back to KC (thank god). But that's a situation where the money didn't win out, or at least it wasn't enough for Gordon to start over in Chicago. 

So can that "home team" affect play a difference? Maybe a little, but money usually always wins out. 

Even that was a situation where he had been there for six years, not three months.

3 hours ago, Tony said:

I think the difference is very minimal. One situation that does stand out (although not exactly the same) is Alex Gordon. From all the information we have to go off of, when Alex Gordon hit free agency, the Sox reportedly made the biggest offer. He ended up taking less to go back to KC (thank god). But that's a situation where the money didn't win out, or at least it wasn't enough for Gordon to start over in Chicago. 

So can that "home team" affect play a difference? Maybe a little, but money usually always wins out. 

Konerko took less to stay with the Sox, but that is years and years invested, and a WS title for each, not 75 games. 

IMO, it is ludicrous to think trading for Machado would help their chances of signing him if they weren't prepared to be the best offer. And someone will go nutty on him. There is always one. No one expected Cano to leave NY, no one expected Pujols to bolt St. Louis. This is a far less risky signing, and he's got the built in teams preparing for Harper could always turn to him, and may actually prefer him.

Edited June 18, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

This board is reminding me of Bleed Cubbie Blue and NSBB.com during their rebuild.  I guess that's a good sign.  

Just stay the course and make your best offseason offer.  Zero reason to trade prospects in a lost season and hope the guy wants to stay

 

back to your regularly scheduled Lucas Giolito talk

14 hours ago, fathom said:

More like it's hard to believe Machado is all of a sudden going to change the way he plays leading up to a huge contract (especially with his history of lower body injuries). And don't get me wrong, I respect the superstars like Jeter who always hustled.  I just believe if we all focused on star players around the majors, we would be surprised at how many loaf (for example, Lindor would have been benched all 4 games last week by Ricky)

I'm sure some players believe they are above that. Heck we all have co-workers who believe they are above doing mundane things. Doesn't mean the manager/supervisor should go along with it.

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Konerko took less to stay with the Sox, but that is years and years invested, and a WS title for each, not 75 games. 

IMO, it is ludicrous to think trading for Machado would help their chances of signing him if they weren't prepared to be the best offer. And someone will go nutty on him. There is always one. No one expected Cano to leave NY, no one expected Pujols to bolt St. Louis. This is a far less risky signing, and he's got the built in teams preparing for Harper could always turn to him, and may actually prefer him.

A number of my Cardinals friends predicted it...an almost legitimate offer making fans believe they really wanted him back, but not quite attractive enough and ultimate he’s the greedy one because they (Cards’ fans) know investing that much payroll into a Price or Heyward is pretty darned risky (for mid-market organizations), despite their huge attendance windfalls.

So back to Giolito talk, the kid only has 25 career starts. Nobody seems to be that concerned with Moncada's struggles and is willing to give him 1500 at bats before they pass judgement. Shouldn't Giolito get 75 or so career starts before he is written off?

2 hours ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

So back to Giolito talk, the kid only has 25 career starts. Nobody seems to be that concerned with Moncada's struggles and is willing to give him 1500 at bats before they pass judgement. Shouldn't Giolito get 75 or so career starts before he is written off?

Yes, he deserves a shot to right the ship. He is still only 23 (almost 24).

 

Maybe I'm speaking for myself here, but I think people are more likely to flip their shit seeing an ERA in the 7's as opposed to a batting average hovering around .220-.230.

Giolito still has 1.5 seasons of going out there every 5th day before he'll be written off or moved to the pen. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a rebuild and you can't live and breathe by the box scores. You need to take a step back and just let "time" play its course.  Don't get overly worked up at the up's and down's because you have to be patient in the process. It might be that everything turns into garbage but it also might be that everything turns out.  But if you aren't patience and willing to allow players to develop, you'll see a lot less guys "pan out" in our organization because the reality is most players need time to develop.  

Gio has issues but he also has flashed potential. It has been a rough year for him but he's working with one of the best pitching coaches in the business and the org needs to be patient with him and I see no reason to rush to immediate judgement one way or the other. If you are talking about "fringy" guys who are blocking other high-talented players, okay, I can buy that to some extent, but in the case of Gio, there is no reason why we shouldn't be patient. I will say the same thing about Moncada and Tim Anderson as well.  

4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a rebuild and you can't live and breathe by the box scores. You need to take a step back and just let "time" play its course.  Don't get overly worked up at the up's and down's because you have to be patient in the process. It might be that everything turns into garbage but it also might be that everything turns out.  But if you aren't patience and willing to allow players to develop, you'll see a lot less guys "pan out" in our organization because the reality is most players need time to develop.  

Gio has issues but he also has flashed potential. It has been a rough year for him but he's working with one of the best pitching coaches in the business and the org needs to be patient with him and I see no reason to rush to immediate judgement one way or the other. If you are talking about "fringy" guys who are blocking other high-talented players, okay, I can buy that to some extent, but in the case of Gio, there is no reason why we shouldn't be patient. I will say the same thing about Moncada and Tim Anderson as well.  

Agree to some extent. Prospect development is not linear. The top 10 pitchers in WAR this year (Fangraphs) broke out at various points in their career: Scherzer, late 20s; DeGrom at 26; Severino, early 20s; Bauer, this year at 27; Verlander right away; Cole pretty early; and Paxton/Kluber late 20s. So patience is clearly justified.  

On the other hand, at some point soon, others prospects will force the issue and need to be given a chance over Giolito if he keeps struggling. Lopez/Covey/Rodon are the three best right now. Within the next year, Kopech "should" be ready. Jordan Stephens also appears ready to be given a shot soon. So if Giolito does not turn it around in the next three and a half months, you may have no choice but to bump him from the rotation. 

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Giolito still has 1.5 seasons of going out there every 5th day before he'll be written off or moved to the pen. 

Exactly. It's the reason a rebuild frustrates some traditional baseball fans. Time means nothing. It's wait til next year year after year if you have to. As long as you are in "rebuild mode" GMs are heroes and nobody has to produce for people to be happy. Soxfest will be just as happy this winter as it was last winter. Cause we are in rebuild mode and results mean nothing. Eventually so many prospects will be on the MLB team that everybody will be so happy tracking their advanced stats. Maybe the team eventually will start winning but for now Sox fans are the old Cub fans, "Wait til next year" is such a happy mantra for many fans. Hopefully in this dream world the Sox will win 2-4 WS titles and remain great for years after that as they keep their players. All skeptical fans like me can do is wait and hope for the best because I don't follow minor league baseball and don't really care about development. I prefer the big league product.

Edited June 19, 20187 yr by greg775

4 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Exactly. It's the reason a rebuild frustrates some traditional baseball fans. Time means nothing. It's wait til next year year after year if you have to. As long as you are in "rebuild mode" GMs are heroes and nobody has to produce for people to be happy. Soxfest will be just as happy this winter as it was last winter. Cause we are in rebuild mode and results mean nothing. Eventually so many prospects will be on the MLB team that everybody will be so happy tracking their advanced stats. Maybe the team eventually will start winning but for now Sox fans are the old Cub fans, "Wait til next year" is such a happy mantra for many fans. Hopefully in this dream world the Sox will win 2-4 WS titles and remain great for years after that as they keep their players. All skeptical fans like me can do is wait and hope for the best because I don't follow minor league baseball and don't really care about development. I prefer the big league product.

People have said over and over there is a time limit on this rebuild and that everybody should lose their jobs if we aren't competing in a couple years. and as far as the big league product, this is a much better way of having a good big league product than what we were doing, but patience is key.

14 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Exactly. It's the reason a rebuild frustrates some traditional baseball fans. Time means nothing. It's wait til next year year after year if you have to. As long as you are in "rebuild mode" GMs are heroes and nobody has to produce for people to be happy. Soxfest will be just as happy this winter as it was last winter. Cause we are in rebuild mode and results mean nothing. Eventually so many prospects will be on the MLB team that everybody will be so happy tracking their advanced stats. Maybe the team eventually will start winning but for now Sox fans are the old Cub fans, "Wait til next year" is such a happy mantra for many fans. Hopefully in this dream world the Sox will win 2-4 WS titles and remain great for years after that as they keep their players. All skeptical fans like me can do is wait and hope for the best because I don't follow minor league baseball and don't really care about development. I prefer the big league product.

The rebuild has only begun. I hope they pawn off Abreu and more players for prospects. Get em out of here! Rick Hahn is god!

Edited June 19, 20187 yr by Hot FiRe

Greg can you just put than in your profile instead of copying and pasting the same inane argument about the rebuild in every thread? We get that you think the rebuild is just an excuse to pocket money while selling the fans on a far off El Dorado.  

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a rebuild and you can't live and breathe by the box scores. You need to take a step back and just let "time" play its course.  Don't get overly worked up at the up's and down's because you have to be patient in the process. It might be that everything turns into garbage but it also might be that everything turns out.  But if you aren't patience and willing to allow players to develop, you'll see a lot less guys "pan out" in our organization because the reality is most players need time to develop.  

Gio has issues but he also has flashed potential. It has been a rough year for him but he's working with one of the best pitching coaches in the business and the org needs to be patient with him and I see no reason to rush to immediate judgement one way or the other. If you are talking about "fringy" guys who are blocking other high-talented players, okay, I can buy that to some extent, but in the case of Gio, there is no reason why we shouldn't be patient. I will say the same thing about Moncada and Tim Anderson as well.  

This just needs to be copy and pasted for the next few years.  Quit living in the micro during a rebuild.  It is f-ing miserable. 

54 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Greg can you just put than in your profile instead of copying and pasting the same inane argument about the rebuild in every thread? We get that you think the rebuild is just an excuse to pocket money while selling the fans on a far off El Dorado.  

There is an ignore button.

5 minutes ago, Juschill said:

There is an ignore button.

Never really been a fan of it, I even took DA off.  Now we have the "confused" rating anyways, although I'd like to change it to a simple "disagree".

7 minutes ago, Juschill said:

There is an ignore button.

So many people quote him, it is worthless. 

There's a reason we got Giolito AND Lopez in a deal for the oft-injured Adam Eaton. Giolito just isn't very good and is certainly not going to reach the potential that once saw him as the game's top pitching prospect.

He's beyond awful right now and needs a AAA bath, but I don't think an SP4 is out of the question long-term. I'm not ready to give up on the guy yet, but his era last year was all luck and he's clearly showing his ceiling is an SP3 at absolute best.

5 hours ago, Steve9347 said:

There's a reason we got Giolito AND Lopez in a deal for the oft-injured Adam Eaton. Giolito just isn't very good and is certainly not going to reach the potential that once saw him as the game's top pitching prospect.

He's beyond awful right now and needs a AAA bath, but I don't think an SP4 is out of the question long-term. I'm not ready to give up on the guy yet, but his era last year was all luck and he's clearly showing his ceiling is an SP3 at absolute best.

My opinion is that it is all about a) if he trusts his mechanics and can repeat them. And b) how much velocity he re-gains if he can get his delivery under control. If he can do a) he can still be a #3-#5. If he does a) and starts sitting at 94-95 and topping at 96 he can still be a TOR starter. If he doesn't get his delivery under control he'll bust. 

Edited June 20, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

3 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

So many people quote him, it is worthless. 

Touché.

Edited June 19, 20187 yr by Juschill

7 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Greg can you just put than in your profile instead of copying and pasting the same inane argument about the rebuild in every thread? We get that you think the rebuild is just an excuse to pocket money while selling the fans on a far off El Dorado.  

Only if chisox fan does it first. He said in his post he's said it "time and again" as well.

2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Only if chisox fan does it first. He said in his post he's said it "time and again" as well.

Yeah but my points are well reasoned 

10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yeah but my points are well reasoned 

/ thread