17 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I actually do think we’ll see him in August or September but it would be wise to wait until next May.

I would have expected him in July...before he got hurt. A setback of a month would push him back a month.

23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The absolute earliest we should see Eloy is September 2018 IF the plan is that we will have him on the opening day 2019 roster.  If not, we shouldn't see him until after the 2019 Super Two deadline.

That seems like a total waste of team control.  Unless he goes on an absolute tear, I'd keep him in AA/AAA this year and call him up mid-May of 2019.  I don't really care about the Super 2 deadline for Eloy when we're already burning service time for Moncada, Lopez, Giolito, etc.  The additional months of develop is far more important than the additional money IMO.

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That seems like a total waste of team control.  Unless he goes on an absolute tear, I'd keep him in AA/AAA this year and call him up mid-May of 2019.  I don't really care about the Super 2 deadline for Eloy when we're already burning service time for Moncada, Lopez, Giolito, etc.  The additional months of develop is far more important than the additional money IMO.

You have just raised my biggest concern. While it's understandable how some of these prospects are going to arrive earlier than others, it's a shame that the time table for the rebuild couldn't have been a little better coordinated. It would have been great to have the maximum number of controlled years for Moncada, Jimenez, Robert and the future starting rotation. It now looks like Jimenez will probably not be on the parent club, for a full year, until 2020. By then Moncada, Giolito and Lopez will be nearing arbitration.

It would have been wonderful to see them all dominate AA, then AAA and ultimately come to the Big Leagues together. At the least, I'd have preferred to have them all come within a 2 year time frame. If they had waited until this year to bring Moncada, 2019 would have been his first full year, and the year that Jimenez could have gotten a late call up, in preparation for his first full year, in 2020. That would have allowed guys like Kopech, Cease and Dunning, to join them. I guess that's a pretty difficult thing to manage, but it would have been great to have them playing and winning, together, in the Minors, before coming to the big club and being able to stay together for a long run of contention.

Edited May 3, 20187 yr by Lillian

2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

What happens if Jimenez is brought up and he performs well? Would that be such a bad thing? Jimenez has talked quite openly that he thinks he should be on the White Sox now performing in the majors.  Frank Thomas was brought up late in the 1990 season. Thomas has said numerous times he thought he should have been brought up sooner. He thought he was wasting his time in the minors

Because it worked for a player 30 years ago, it must work for every minor leaguer! There is a reason teams don't rush players before they are ready, because most of the time it end up back firing.

Also situation is different. That White Sox team was in playoff hunt, this is a rebuild team playing meaningless games.

17 minutes ago, Lillian said:

You have just raised my biggest concern. While it's understandable how some of these prospects are going to arrive earlier than others, it's a shame that the time table for the rebuild couldn't have been a little better coordinated. It would have been great to have the maximum number of controlled years for Moncada, Jimenez, Robert and the future starting rotation. It now looks like Jimenez will probably not be on the parent club, for a full year, until 2020. By then Moncada, Giolito and Lopez will be nearing arbitration.

Except Boston and Washington started the clock on Moncada, Lopez and Giolito before we even got them, so it was a moot point.

36 minutes ago, Lillian said:

You have just raised my biggest concern. While it's understandable how some of these prospects are going to arrive earlier than others, it's a shame that the time table for the rebuild couldn't have been a little better coordinated. It would have been great to have the maximum number of controlled years for Moncada, Jimenez, Robert and the future starting rotation. It now looks like Jimenez will probably not be on the parent club, for a full year, until 2020. By then Moncada, Giolito and Lopez will be nearing arbitration.

 It would have been wonderful to see them all dominate AA, then AAA and ultimately come to the Big Leagues together. At the least, I'd have preferred to have them all come within a 2 year time frame. If they had waited until this year to bring Moncada, 2019 would have been his first full year, and the year that Jimenez could have gotten a late call up, in preparation for his first full year, in 2020. That would have allowed guys like Kopech, Cease and Dunning, to join them. I guess that's a pretty difficult thing to manage, but it would have been great to have them playing and winning, together, in the Minors, before coming to the big club and being able to stay together for a long run of contention.

Unfortunately, there's no easy way to manage that though.  We wisely targeted assets that were closer to the majors in the Sale & Eaton deals and those guys will be up before the rest of our top prospects.  Nothing wrong with having waves of talent, but it also means that we can't waste significant time before we start adding in free agency.  Have to view Moncada as a guy who will leave when hits free agency after the 2023 season, which means our goal should be maximizing a 2020 to 2023 window.

Hahn has said numerous times he won't bring up anybody who wasn't ready. Yet he brought up Carson Fulmer last year who didn't perform well in the minors.

2 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Hahn has said numerous times he won't bring up anybody who wasn't ready. Yet he brought up Carson Fulmer last year who didn't perform well in the minors.

Fulmer spent the year in AAA last year until being called up for a double header in August, then being sent back down, and called back up for September.  That really isn't what you are trying to make it out to be. 

The kicker is outside of his emergency double header call up, he pitched really well for the White Sox in September (1.64 era, 1.000 whip, 7.8 K/9) , so does that mean Hahn was right to call him up?  Even with the emergency start, his numbers with the White Sox in 2017 are fairly decent.

The General Manager has been very clear on this.  He said the player's play will dictate when he should be brought up.  Thus, if he's playing at or near the Big Frank minor league clip of 1990, we'll see him sooner rather than later.  If not, he'll stay down until his development is at a point where a call-up is merited.  

6 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Generally, I agree.  But if the guy is raking in the minors, you gain not pissing off your future cornerstone.  We're not there yet - but its totally conceivable that he proves worthy of being in the big leagues well before next May. But again, if it were up to me, we wouldn't see him until late April / early May 2019. 

Pissing him off is worth the one year of control though.  Whether.or not he likes it, he will have to be with the Sox for the next 6+ years. And if he wants future earnings to increase, he has to play well. The only negative could be when free agency comes, but in all honesty, if he plays as well as we hope, he'll be too expensive for the Sox anyway.

Just let his development dictate the timeline. There's no reason to call him up now because he hasn't proven enough yet. If he gets very hot for a sustained amount of time, either quickly promote to AAA or decide that if he keeps it up for a couple months you might just have to call him up. It's worth remembering that team control isn't everything here. If a guy is at the point where he won't be getting better until he gets to the majors, then you have to bring him up. If you wait too long, you don't have guys peaking at the right time and you end up extending the rebuild longer than it should have been. I think we are very close to this point with Michael Kopech, where it's going to be negative for his development timeline to stay in AAA.

https://theathletic.com/349056/2018/05/10/how-is-the-eloy-jimenez-deal-working-out-for-the-white-sox-quite-well-thanks/

 

Article just posted to the Athletic, mostly on Eloy, but based off how the Q trade is working out so far. Among other things, Eloy says about Birmingham :  He’s too good for Double-A, a level Jiménez says is not easy, but also “is not challenging me.”

 

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

There's just so much to respond about in this thread. There's just no way the Sox can wait til 2019 to call up JImenez. Many keep saying if he gets really hot and forces the issue  but he's been playing like a man possessed for a long time now. Just as with Big Frank he could come up now and probably be the best or nearly the best hitter on the Sox.

Sure send him to AAA for a month and when he wrecks some pitching careers there  bring him up  right after the All Star game . I sure wouldn't want to piss him off. He has the desire and has been forcing the issue with his bat and his words. Yea we all know it makes no sense in a shitty season  but once he's up it rewards the current players with a few more wins, a glimpse of the future and hope for 2019. It also makes Eloy very happy,If you had Mike Trout would you want to make him angry  or happy ? I choose happy.

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There's just so much to respond about in this thread. There's just no way the Sox can wait til 2019 to call up JImenez. Many keep saying if he gets really hot and forces the issue  but he's been playing like a man possessed for a long time now. Just as with Big Frank he could come up now and probably be the best or nearly the best hitter on the Sox.

Sure send him to AAA for a month and when he wrecks some pitching careers there  bring him up  right after the All Star game . I sure wouldn't want to piss him off. He has the desire and has been forcing the issue with his bat and his words. Yea we all know it makes no sense in a shitty season  but once he's up it rewards the current players with a few more wins, a glimpse of the future and hope for 2019. It also makes Eloy very happy,If you had Mike Trout would you want to make him angry  or happy ? I choose happy.

I agree with this. Also at the end of that article in the Athletic, it makes it sounds like the trade from the Cubs still stings him a little bit. With him saying AA is not challenging him, I don't know how you can't move him up to AAA immediately and then go from there.

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There's just so much to respond about in this thread. There's just no way the Sox can wait til 2019 to call up JImenez. Many keep saying if he gets really hot and forces the issue  but he's been playing like a man possessed for a long time now. Just as with Big Frank he could come up now and probably be the best or nearly the best hitter on the Sox.

Sure send him to AAA for a month and when he wrecks some pitching careers there  bring him up  right after the All Star game . I sure wouldn't want to piss him off. He has the desire and has been forcing the issue with his bat and his words. Yea we all know it makes no sense in a shitty season  but once he's up it rewards the current players with a few more wins, a glimpse of the future and hope for 2019. It also makes Eloy very happy,If you had Mike Trout would you want to make him angry  or happy ? I choose happy.

I agree with this.  If he's tearing the cover off the ball...you're going to leave him in AA or AAA?  Doesn't make much sense.  Like Hahn said...his play will dictate when he comes.

.326/.378/.526

 

Those were Gordon Beckham's splits in AA and AAA in 196 PA in 2009 as an older player than Eloy. People still complain he was rushed. There is no reason to rush Eloy.

6 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I agree with this. Also at the end of that article in the Athletic, it makes it sounds like the trade from the Cubs still stings him a little bit. With him saying AA is not challenging him, I don't know how you can't move him up to AAA immediately and then go from there.

I'm not joking when I say this, but we can use that to our advantage. We need to get the necessary money together to keep our best of the best. I'd sell him on being able to rub it in the Cubs face every day playing in the same city and having a chance to hit against them 6 times a year.

Kris Bryant had some pretty good minor league stats (.325/.438 /.661/1.098) and the Cubs kept him down until the following year to gain 1 extra year of control. That seemed to really hurt his development as a player.

 

 

Edited May 10, 20187 yr by Soxbadger

2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Kris Bryant had some pretty good minor league stats (.325/.438 /.661/1.098) and the Cubs kept him down until the following year to gain 1 extra year of control. That seemed to really hurt his development as a player.

 

 

It certainly reduced his willingness to re-up with the Cubs after his arbitration years end.

 

3 minutes ago, knightni said:

It certainly reduced his willingness to re-up with the Cubs after his arbitration years end.

 

It will be interesting when that day comes. 

Bryant's agent is Boras. Even if they had called him up on the first day he was drafted Boras wasnt going to let him sign a team friendly deal. 

But by playing the game, the Cubs get to keep him until hes 30. 

27 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

.326/.378/.526

 

Those were Gordon Beckham's splits in AA and AAA in 196 PA in 2009 as an older player than Eloy. People still complain he was rushed. There is no reason to rush Eloy.

completely different animals...

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

.326/.378/.526

 

Those were Gordon Beckham's splits in AA and AAA in 196 PA in 2009 as an older player than Eloy. People still complain he was rushed. There is no reason to rush Eloy.

too painful, please dont remind me

3 minutes ago, Wanne said:

completely different animals...

And if the White Sox call up Eloy and he struggles, some of the same people who are dying to see him will be crying about the Sox always rushing guys. There is no need.