4 minutes ago, Baron said:

Wait for the prospects and turn up the heat on Rick. 

Yeah right....Rick and Gar ever being on the hot seat

Just now, fathom said:

Yeah right....Rick and Gar ever being on the hot seat

Please don't lump Rick in with Gar yet.  Gar is goddamn scum.

Just now, bschmaranz said:

Please don't lump Rick in with Gar yet.  Gar is goddamn scum.

Yeah Rick isn't on that level yet. Gar and Pax should have been fired years ago and their attitude makes everyone hate them. 

Edited December 12, 20187 yr by Baron

Just now, Baron said:

Yeah Rick isn't on that level yet. Gar and Pax should have been fired years ago. 

Rick would have to dick the fans over another 7-10 years.

Just now, bschmaranz said:

Rick would have to dick the fans over another 7-10 years.

 

The best part about the Bulls is they cant use the "we've made the playoffs the past few years" as an excuse. Now they just plain suck and ontop of it they are a laughing stock. 

8 minutes ago, Baron said:

Wait for the prospects and turn up the heat on Rick. 

Trout in 2021 or we riot!

Just now, Baron said:

Yeah Rick isn't on that level yet. Gar and Pax should have been fired years ago. 

And Rick should have been fired after 2016. Both organizations have been a joke the last 5 years or so with more bad news being made off the field than good news on the field.

Just now, fathom said:

And Rick should have been fired after 2016. Both organizations have been a joke the last 5 years or so with more bad news being made off the field than good news on the field.

I agree but I don't hate Rick. He doesn't give the middle finger to the fans. Both of those assholes in the Bulls front office do. 

As we see with the Bulls, if you don't sign free agents who are young and premier, you will suffer decades of non contention. 

Stay the course, but never forget the Sox couldn't land the big fish with less than $11 million committed in 2019, and $4.5 million committed in 2020. It basically says if any part of this rebuild requires landing the big fish, Arenado, Rendon, are next up,  I have some elevator insurance to sell you. 

At some point, winning games has to come into play. Prospects fail. We all know that. But, until they show they can draft or trade for or sign prospects who actually are very successful, it's fine to be skeptical.  And these prospects need to start showing something in 2019 or the heat should be way up on these guys. Speaking a good game, which both RH and KW do very well, doesn't win them.

Edited December 12, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Stay the course, but never forget the Sox couldn't land the big fish with less than $11 million committed in 2019, and $4.5 million committed in 2020. It basically says if any part of this rebuild requires landing the big fish, Arenado, Rendon, I have some elevator insurance to sell you. 

At some point, winning games has to come into play.

Yep, we are probably gonna have to trade Madrigal and our pick from next year to get that big fish if we miss now. 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Stay the course, but never forget the Sox couldn't land the big fish with less than $11 million committed in 2019, and $4.5 million committed in 2020. It basically says if any part of this rebuild requires landing the big fish, Arenado, Rendon, I have some elevator insurance to sell you. 

At some point, winning games has to come into play.

Exactly. The plan cannot just be to continue losing and tanking in years 3, 4, 5, etc. Eventually we need to start adding quality players via free agency and trade to help build a contender. 

Ownership and the front office know that the time is now for big move(s) 

A little different plan if the Sox miss out on Harper/MM:

Trade Jose Abreu to Dodgers for Jaren Kendall (OF) and Diego Cartaya (C) 

Trade Yolmer Sanchez to the Yankees for Nolan Martinez (P)

Trade Wellington Castillo to Mets for salary relief and a bag of balls

Sign Yasmani Grandal - 4 years $65M

Sign Drew Pomeranz - 1 year $6M

Sign AJ Ellis - 1 year $2M

Wait for the market to crater on the glut of corner OF and corner IF, then pounce on a couple cheap deal 1 year deals. 

OF Options: Carlos Gonzalez, Curtis Granderson, Adam Jones, Avi Garcia, maybe even Nick Markakis

2B/3B options: Dozier, Mike Moustakas, Josh Harrison, Neil Walker, Daniel Murphy, Ian Kinsler

1B/DH Options: Nelson Cruz, Justin Bour, Evan Gattis, etc. 

So for sake of discussion, let's say:

Sign Carlos Gonzalez (1 year $8M)

Sign Brian Dozier (2 year $14M)

Sign Justin Bour (1 year $5M)

Roster as of May 1st (estimated 2019 salary):

1B: Bour ($5M)

2B: Dozier ($7M)

SS: Anderson ($1.4M)

3B: Moncada ($570k)

LF: Carlos Gonzalez ($8M)

CF: Engel ($560k) (with lots of Leury sprinkled in)

RF: Eloy ($560k)

DH: Palka ($560k) (mix Palka in at 1B as well, with Bour DHing)

Catcher: Grandal ($16M)

BN: Leury ($1.5M), Rondon ($560k), Cordell ($560k), Ellis ($2M)

Rotation: Rodon ($3.5M), Lopez ($570k), Giolito ($570k), Pomeranz ($6M), and Nova ($9.1M)

Bullpen: Colome ($7.5M), Jones ($4.65M), Hamilton ($560k), Fry ($560k), Frare ($560k), Ruiz  ($560k) and Burdi ($560k)

Total payroll: ~ $79M

Fairly low payroll, minimal future commitments other than Grandal.  The team probably sucks, but tons of flippable players on short term deals in Dozier, Carlos Gonzalez, Bour, Pomeranz, Nova, and Colome.  Definitely not the route we all want, but I'd rather see this than trotting out AAAA players like Delmonico, Cordell, Stephens, etc., in 2019, with basically no flippable talent.  

Edited December 12, 20187 yr by ChiSox59

Use payroll flexibility in trade acquisitions or three way trades.

Focus like an effing hawk to finally have a successful latam signing period for first time in the 21st century

Sign trevor cahill to trade and booey rotation until prospects ready.

sign Curtis Granderson because he's nice then trade in July to Yankees when half their roster splits their obliques.

Invest all of the millions you were going to give to manny/bryce into player development and create the most innovative, best system in league.

Fire renteria and hire jim boylen to create structure and improve stamina.

You had me at hire Jim Boylen. They'll be running sprints after every game. 

Don’t waste long term $ trying to piece together a mediocre team...but I would like to see a few players signed on 1 year deals (maybe 2 for the right guy). Bridge the gap and help the young players with vet leadership and get a little protection in the lineup. I don’t expect to compete next year but i think it’s time to take a step a forward from 100 losses and get some confidence in these young kids going into 2020. I don’t think tanking for another high draft pick is going to make a difference at this point. 

 

A smart trade or 2 for young position players would also be smart. Never hurts to look at reclinimation projects

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

You had me at hire Jim Boylen. They'll be running sprints after every game. 

You mean Gene Hackman?  Still waiting for Jimmy Chitwood to declare his intentions.

I was thinking of starting a thread around this.  So here's my take:

- Sign Grandal and Brantley

- Sign/acquire one more decent starting pitcher and at least one more arm for the bullpen

Not a lot going on there, but it'll be an improvement over last year and give the young guys a chance to play.

What concerns me is the lack of big free agents after next season.  The Sox will have to be more creative with trades.

I think they want Grandal regardless of if they get Harper/Machado.  If they miss on Harper I think they sign Brantley

how long have KW and Hahn been running things now? 18 years? If they miss out on everything this year, how much longer should they get?

1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

how long have KW and Hahn been running things now? 18 years? If they miss out on everything this year, how much longer should they get?

2 years to make the team competitive. That's 4 years of a total rebuild. That's reasonable.

Just now, cjgalloway said:

I think they want Grandal regardless of if they get Harper/Machado.  If they miss on Harper I think they sign Brantley

Grandal could make a ton of sense and solidify the catcher position for the Sox for the next 3-4 seasons. At the end of the day, Harper/Machado just might elect to sign elsewhere, but ownership and the front office will have a difficult time explaining why we couldn't pony up enough to win the bid? 

For the rebuild to work we will need to add premium pitching and position players along the way, as no chance we get it done solely from our own farm. 

Fill the gaps with 1 year deals, let the kids develop, lose 100 again, draft high, get crazy in Free Agency.

 

 

Now, nothing has shown that this organization can/will do the last part of that narrative, so...yeah.

30 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

how long have KW and Hahn been running things now? 18 years? If they miss out on everything this year, how much longer should they get?

2021. It's the year that everyone should be arrived, the whole outfield, everything at W-S last year should be up, it's the first arbitration year for Moncada, Lopez, and Giolito so they're still cheap. The guys they don't have room for should be tradeable for an extra all star or two. This team should be f***ing loaded in 2021. If it isn't, then this front office completely blew their talent evaluation and development to a degree I haven't seen in baseball in my lifetime. 

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Won't be looking good if we don't get either of the two...

but for 2019 that means another year of 100% rebuilding... trading Abreu for prospects, loading up on RP to flip at the deadline, maybe signing 1 or 2 vets to shore things up and maybe flip at the dead line.

 

I like this, but I doubt the Sox  will do it.