southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, fathom said: But what if the issue is that Hahn and Kenny fall into this category also? You probably shouldn't waste your time on the Sox for the next few years then if you are honestly waiting for them to be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: People are bored of the rebuild by now, even though it was what they asked for two years ago. They are also green-eyed about a certain team across town. We all knew this would be a process and I think a lot of people got way too excited about the thrill of the hunt for these top two players. The odds were never in our favor. We are District 13 right now. Not bored, a bit disappointed that the talent hasn't proven itself yet but there is still time for that to happen. I'm still optimistic, as long as the Sox spend money when necessary to maximize their window, should it open. I would hope they learned a lesson from squandering the 2000-04 and 2006-12 teams by not spending enough to put them over the top in a given year. It is a minor miracle they won it all in 2005. Edited January 2, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, bmags said: I don't think that's his critique at all. That the process seems longer than ever, and that I think White Sox related reasons make it feel even more that way than normal for White Sox fans? I think that is absolutely fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: I.do.not.understand. District 13. http://thehungergames.wikia.com/wiki/District_13 Apparently you don’t have time to watch, like, ANY...movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Where’s our Jennifer Lawrence, at least? It’s just our luck to get more Woody Harrelsons... And the villains here are the Cubs, Yankees and Dodgers? I guess Ricketts himself would work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You probably shouldn't waste your time on the Sox for the next few years then if you are honestly waiting for them to be fired. Where did I say they should be fired (Hahn should have been, but that wasn't the point I made). Rather they seemed to have the idea via their quotes that it was time to start having this team compete more, despite all of 2018 seemingly pushing the rebuild back a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, fathom said: Where did I say they should be fired (Hahn should have been, but that wasn't the point I made). Rather they seemed to have the idea via their quotes that it was time to start having this team compete more, despite all of 2018 seemingly pushing the rebuild back a season. Their quotes were that players are available now that might not be ready when they are ready to compete, and that they had the resources to try to go after them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Not bored, a bit disappointed that the talent hasn't proven itself yet but there is still time for that to happen. I'm still optimistic, as long as the Sox spend money when necessary to maximize their window, should it open. I would hope they learned a lesson from squandering the 2000-04 and 2006-12 teams by not spending enough to put them over the top in a given year. It is a minor miracle they won it all in 2005. Not really, they had Everett to cover for Thomas. Shingo and Hermanson before Jenks. El Duque before McCarthy, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, southsider2k5 said: That the process seems longer than ever, and that I think White Sox related reasons make it feel even more that way than normal for White Sox fans? I think that is absolutely fair. It's not only sox fans complaining that the offseason structure needs to change. NBA free agency is very exciting for nba fans. NFL free agency is very exciting for NFL fans. From what i understand soccer fans enjoy the transfer periods. And mlb fans have been complaining about how slow and tortured its offseason is. - There is no draft - The former flurry of activity (gm meetings) has become less significant over the years - i.e. there is no offseason milestone to guide you, and so you are left with slow trickles of b.s. from fans that just want to know where the team is headed. And so what should be a fun process of seeing a chase for the top 2 free agents in a decade has been a thud even for fans involved in the chase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: District 13. http://thehungergames.wikia.com/wiki/District_13 Apparently you don’t have time to watch, like, ANY...movies. Lol...I probably watched 10 movies over the last two weeks or so, but I guess I’m not a Hunger Games guy 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 The other thing that people have to realize is that the Sox acquired a TON of boom/bust prospects through both the draft and trade. The only sure bet they have acquired is Eloy, and that happened under their watch. The safest prospect they have acquired other than Eloy is Dunning, but he's likely a mid to back end of the rotation guy. Everyone else has the potential to completely flop. The numbers game says it shouldn't happen, but there is more of a chance that it could happen than most realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I would guess that more than one team would at least open at around seven years. This was not a secret. The opt-outs and front loading would go along with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Their quotes were that players are available now that might not be ready when they are ready to compete, and that they had the resources to try to go after them. Didn't he specifically say they're in a "transition phase"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Not bored, a bit disappointed that the talent hasn't proven itself yet but there is still time for that to happen. I'm still optimistic, as long as the Sox spend money when necessary to maximize their window, should it open. I would hope they learned a lesson from squandering the 2000-04 and 2006-12 teams by not spending enough to put them over the top in a given year. It is a minor miracle they won it all in 2005. Holy schnikies is this an explosion of bad takes. First, "talent hasn't proven itself yet"??? Did you actually think the rebuild would be over in 2 years? That is an absurd expectation. The future of the team is still mostly in the minors or having just arrived late last year. Other than Moncada, who we all agree hasn't been as good as we'd hoped (though he's not as awful as some are saying either), we really haven't seen enough to know at all. Squandering because they wouldn't spend? 2006 the Sox dramatically INCREASED payroll from 2005. That team collapsed late on pitching mostly, not because the team wouldn't spend. The 2000 team won the division, then the Sox went from near-bottom payroll to league-average payroll the next two years which is a big jump. What are you talking about? It is a miracle they won in 2005 in the same sense it's a "miracle" when any team wins the World Series. That team was dominant all year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Not really, they had Everett to cover for Thomas. Shingo and Hermanson before Jenks. El Duque before McCarthy, etc. Everything came together that year. Nobody is denying that. The pitching staff that was lights out in 05 was complete crap in 06, which is why they didn't make the postseason. Buehrle and Contreras' arms fell off at the ASB, and Garcia's did during the offseason. Anyone remember the "Flamethrower Freddy" graphic? That was hilarious and accurate in 2006. Stealing Floyd and Gio Gonzalez from the Phillies for Freddy was highway robbery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Lol...I probably watched 10 movies over the last two weeks or so, but I guess I’m not a Hunger Games guy 🤷♂️ Your version of this is we’re more like Wakanda...whereas most of the fan base is stuck in some kind of bizarro Spider-Verse as soon as news of being realistic players for Harper and Machado came out. And Jack Parkman’s going all Handmaid’s Tale or Bird Box the last couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 54 minutes ago, EvilJester99 said: This is BS, first off this is Levine, and second the Sox wouldn’t have a seat at the table if this is all they were willing to go. Carry on my wayward son The Kansas reference deserves a +1 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, fathom said: Didn't he specifically say they're in a "transition phase"? Did you take that to mean they were absolutely signing someone big this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: The other thing that people have to realize is that the Sox acquired a TON of boom/bust prospects through both the draft and trade. The only sure bet they have acquired is Eloy, and that happened under their watch. The safest prospect they have acquired other than Eloy is Dunning, but he's likely a mid to back end of the rotation guy. Everyone else has the potential to completely flop. The numbers game says it shouldn't happen, but there is more of a chance that it could happen than most realize. It was the Sox drafting "safe" guys that caused the farm system to be a wasteland for years. Now the Sox are drafting, signing and acquiring the opposite, looking for ceiling, which is a good thing, and somehow you want the old days again? This is insane. And "the numbers game" says that MOST prospects don't reach their ceilings. So, it SHOULD happen, and you go get a bunch of high ceiling guys for exactly that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said: Holy schnikies is this an explosion of bad takes. First, "talent hasn't proven itself yet"??? Did you actually think the rebuild would be over in 2 years? That is an absurd expectation. The future of the team is still mostly in the minors or having just arrived late last year. Other than Moncada, who we all agree hasn't been as good as we'd hoped (though he's not as awful as some are saying either), we really haven't seen enough to know at all. Squandering because they wouldn't spend? 2006 the Sox dramatically INCREASED payroll from 2005. That team collapsed late on pitching mostly, not because the team wouldn't spend. The 2000 team won the division, then the Sox went from near-bottom payroll to league-average payroll the next two years which is a big jump. What are you talking about? It is a miracle they won in 2005 in the same sense it's a "miracle" when any team wins the World Series. That team was dominant all year. Yeah the Sox literally went out after 2005 and got Thome and Vazquez. They just ran out of gas that year, especially with pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, NorthSideSox72 said: Holy schnikies is this an explosion of bad takes. First, "talent hasn't proven itself yet"??? Did you actually think the rebuild would be over in 2 years? That is an absurd expectation. The future of the team is still mostly in the minors or having just arrived late last year. Other than Moncada, who we all agree hasn't been as good as we'd hoped (though he's not as awful as some are saying either), we really haven't seen enough to know at all. Squandering because they wouldn't spend? 2006 the Sox dramatically INCREASED payroll from 2005. That team collapsed late on pitching mostly, not because the team wouldn't spend. The 2000 team won the division, then the Sox went from near-bottom payroll to league-average payroll the next two years which is a big jump. What are you talking about? It is a miracle they won in 2005 in the same sense it's a "miracle" when any team wins the World Series. That team was dominant all year. I don't really blame them for 2006, but I do blame them for the 2001-04 teams, as well the 2010 and 2012 team. They were a couple players away during those years, and they seemed to be content finishing second. They could have put themselves over the top, but didn't. 01-04 still infuriates me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Did you take that to mean they were absolutely signing someone big this year? Not big, but to me it meant acquiring big league assets (controllable) instead of going another offseason failing to bring in anyone that could be projected as being on the next contending team. Still plenty of time to go this offseason, but I highly, highly doubt their intentions were to just bring in stop-gap measures like they have so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Everything came together that year. Nobody is denying that. The pitching staff that was lights out in 05 was complete crap in 06, which is why they didn't make the postseason. Buehrle and Contreras' arms fell off at the ASB, and Garcia's did during the offseason. Anyone remember the "Flamethrower Freddy" graphic? That was hilarious and accurate in 2006. Stealing Floyd and Gio Gonzalez from the Phillies for Freddy was highway robbery. How often do you have three teams in the same division win 90+? That was the year Liriano and Santana owned the Sox. But mostly, it was the pitching breaking down, and Jenks as well. Plus, the offense fell off a cliff in August as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: I don't really blame them for 2006, but I do blame them for the 2001-04 teams, as well the 2010 and 2012 team. They were a couple players away during those years, and they seemed to be content finishing second. They could have put themselves over the top, but didn't. 01-04 still infuriates me. You can blame them, and credit them, for every year. But your idea that the Sox lost momentum from 2000 and 2005 due to unwillingness to spend is just flat wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, NorthSideSox72 said: It was the Sox drafting "safe" guys that caused the farm system to be a wasteland for years. Now the Sox are drafting, signing and acquiring the opposite, looking for ceiling, which is a good thing, and somehow you want the old days again? This is insane. And "the numbers game" says that MOST prospects don't reach their ceilings. So, it SHOULD happen, and you go get a bunch of high ceiling guys for exactly that reason. No, that wasn't what I was referring to. What I meant was they acquired, for premium talent, players that could be amongst the best in the game or completely flop. I actually applaud them for doing that, but people need to realize there is a 20% chance that they ALL miss. It doesn't necessarily mean they made a bad or wrong trade, it just means they got incredibly unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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