3 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Mazara is a replacement level player.

Who is a better player next year

Mazara 

Or

Castellanos/Puig/Ozuna

Are you assuming that none of the Sox OF from the minors will be good MLB OF in 2 years?

16 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I have no idea how people are actually defending this without being just shills.

There is NOTHING to suggest this makes the White Sox better then just signing any myriad of FA's available.  

This is like buying Bitcoin at 19k and praying on potential.

This move seem strange but it is early December. You have to wait till all the moves are done. The winter meetings have just started and last year we even saw signings as late as February.  When pitchers and catchers report, we should have a better feel for how Hahn has spent money and hopefully improved the roster. 

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by SCCWS

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

No you said the twins acquiring one of the lefties would make it hard for the Sox to contend for three years.  Still garbage 

HardER.

Just wait.  We can compare what they come up with beyond Pineda vs. the Sox transactions.  
 

I said it would make 2021 much harder, and push the window back potentially to 2022/23 if we can’t overtake them.  Obviously, there’s a possibility to still make it as a WC like the Nationals just did, or the Royals in 2014, etc.

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Are you assuming that none of the Sox OF from the minors will be good MLB OF in 2 years?

I would call that a strong possibility.

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Are you assuming that none of the Sox OF from the minors will be good MLB OF in 2 years?

Yes, I am 100% assuming that.  I am also 100% advocating that good teams fill holes with good FA or trades.  

I hope Luis Robert isn't part of these assumptions

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Are you assuming that none of the Sox OF from the minors will be good MLB OF in 2 years?

Nope.  I wouldn’t bet on any one guy.  They all have issues that could easily prevent them from being major leaguers.

Which one do you think will be a legitimate productive major league outfielder right now?

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

If my responses are “NASCAR”, your responses indicate that you are carrying water for the Sox front office just like our local beat reporters.

I would somewhat disagree. I do defend the FO to the extent of the restrictions they have. They know they cant follow your philosophy of give all FA all the money they want. The team would only be able to field 4 players.  The rebuild needs to follow its path and make good short and long term decisions.

Is this move going to make them win the world series next year?

Is he better than the options last year? Yes

Will the team be better in the long run without a 5 year deal to Castellanos? I think yes.

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

I hope Luis Robert isn't part of these assumptions

I don't even count him as an OF from the minors. He's a big leaguer already in my mind - just down for service time reasons. 

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

I hope Luis Robert isn't part of these assumptions

Of course not, he's MLB talent.

Let's pretend Engel and Mazara either stay the same or improve vs LH/RHP......Are we not happy with a cobined .840 OPS in RF?

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I would somewhat disagree. I do defend the FO to the extent of the restrictions they have. They know they cant follow your philosophy of give all FA all the money they want. The team would only be able to field 4 players.  The rebuild needs to follow its path and make good short and long term decisions.



Is this move going to make them win the world series next year?



Is he better than the options last year? Yes



Will the team be better in the long run without a 5 year deal to Castellanos? I think yes.



What's the sox payroll for 2020?  Whats the league average.  They just spent the last couple of years banking coin on their payroll.  If we are at such a low payroll and opening up the books spooks the front office.  Then we are not competing anyway and this is all eyewash.  Lets stop pretending that this is the Marlins.  They have money.  

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by southsideirish71

1 minute ago, southsideirish71 said:

What's the sox payroll for 2020?  Whats the league average.  They just spent the last couple of years banking coin on their payroll.  If we are at such a low payroll and opening up the books spooks the front office.  Then we are not competing anyway and this is all eyewash.  Lets stop pretending that this is the Marlins.  They have money.  

Let’s forget about those facts...

Just now, scs787 said:

Let's pretend Engel and Mazara either stay the same or improve vs LH/RHP......Are we not happy with a cobined .840 OPS in RF?

That's unrealistic because they aren't facing 100% positive match ups in real life.

Also there is nothing in Mazaras metrics that prove he has improved in any meaningful way that weren't league wide.  Engle had a run the last month of the season that boosted his low AB's which was most likely an outlier compared to his career #s.

2 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

What's the sox payroll for 2020?  Whats the league average.  They just spent the last couple of years banking coin on their payroll.  If we are at such a low payroll and opening up the books spooks the front office.  Then we are not competing anyway and this is all eyewash.  Lets stop pretending that this is the Marlins.  They have money.  

If they don't make a move for Ryu or Bumgarner, or take on a big deal like Pricce, they're on a path to it being about $120 million, give or take a reliever. They're around $100 million with Mazara, a couple back of the rotation signings would push that near $120. 

6 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Let's pretend Engel and Mazara either stay the same or improve vs LH/RHP......Are we not happy with a cobined .840 OPS in RF?

Honestly don't want to think about Engel being part of this team at all 

4 hours ago, SoxAce said:

What is interesting about Mazara besides the gap power.. his ISO has gone up the last 4 years.

'16 - .153

'17 - .170

'18 - .178

'19 - .200 (and that was only 469 PAs)

Still not great, but it's very encouraging. 

League average ISO jumped up exactly 22 points from 2018 to 2019 (thank you juiced ball), which is identical to his improvement.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

League average ISO jumped up exactly 22 points from 2018 to 2019 (thank you juiced ball), which is identical to his improvement.

Exactly.  He has not made any meaningful improvement in 4 years. Smoke show.

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by BackDoorBreach

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Honestly don't want to think about Engel being part of this team at all 

and we shouldn't need to unless for a late game defensive replacement.....nice 5th OF, but should be no part of a platoon on a good team

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Honestly don't want to think about Engel being part of this team at all 

He's a white guy that runs into walls. Sox fans eat that shit up. 

5 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Let's pretend Engel and Mazara either stay the same or improve vs LH/RHP......Are we not happy with a cobined .840 OPS in RF?

After sleeping the trade off...this is where I am at. In a platoon situation...this is a great use of funds and current talent. Engel can spell Eloy in the field as well and ultimately Leury becomes the super utility guy. Outside of spending a bunch on Castellanos, this COULD work. But, they MUST sign one of RYU, Bum or Keuchel if this is the path they chose, plus another pitching move also. This trade does remind me a bit of Podsednik though...giving a possibly talented outfielder a real chance to reach a better potential. 

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Honestly don't want to think about Engel being part of this team at all 

But this deal sets up the perfect Mazara and Engel platoon, shouldn't your defense of this trade carry over to excitement about the platoon? Against lefties Engel is a better hitter than Mazara and he's a defensive upgrade. 

Just now, EloyJenkins said:

After sleeping the trade off...this is where I am at. In a platoon situation...this is a great use of funds and current talent. Engel can spell Eloy in the field as well and ultimately Leury becomes the super utility guy. Outside of spending a bunch on Castellanos, this COULD work. But, they MUST sign one of RYU, Bum or Keuchel if this is the path they chose, plus another pitching move also. This trade does remind me a bit of Podsednik though...giving a possibly talented outfielder a real chance to reach a better potential. 

Scott Podsednik was 2nd in the rookie of the year award voting in 2003 with a 43/53 in stolen bases and an .379 OBP/.822 OPS. 

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If they don't make a move for Ryu or Bumgarner, or take on a big deal like Pricce, they're on a path to it being about $120 million, give or take a reliever. They're around $100 million with Mazara, a couple back of the rotation signings would push that near $120. 

What am I missing, I only have them at ~$85 currently (give or take weirdness around Abreu's signing bonus)

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

That's unrealistic because they aren't facing 100% positive match ups in real life.

Also there is nothing in Mazaras metrics that prove he has improved in any meaningful way that weren't league wide.  Engle had a run the last month of the season that boosted his low AB's which was most likely an outlier compared to his career #s.

I don’t see why they wouldn’t face 90% positive matchups throughout the year...especially with the new 3 batter rule for pitchers. 
Whether or not Engel keeps up his very small sample size split vs LH is fair. Leury on the other hand, does have good career splits vs LH