Just now, bmags said:

If the white sox couldn't handle Sale, good luck with Bauer. Also by signing Boddy I'd imagine the Reds pony up to re-sign Bauer.

He'll be a FA the year after he re-signs.  Mazaras contract runs out then so maybe we can make him an offer.

Seems like we have two camps on this trade. People who are excited that the White Sox won't have the worst RF situation in baseball next year and people who upset that the White Sox are not trying to get meaningfully better.

 

A lot has been said in here about this trade, but it's pretty simple:

This is a good overall trade. Getting 24 year old Nomar M. for pretty much nothing is NICE. Don't believe me? Look through twitter comments and see what Ranger fans think and other baseball fans think.

The problem is that a lot of us feel this is the ONLY move that the w'Sox will make in RF. That's a big problem, but let's just wait and see what happens. If the W'sox go into the season with Mazaraa penciled in as our right fielder, then yeah, Hahn is a fucking moron. 

1 minute ago, oneofthemikes said:

I started digging around a bit looking at the early career of Marcell Ozuna and Nomar Mazara (the hope being that maybe Menechino can help Mazara the way he did in the 5th year of Ozuna's career). Can someone smarter than me explain why the WAR values (specifically oWAR) are so much different between Ozuna's 2014 and Mazara's 2019?

2014 Ozuna (3.5 oWAR) - 269/317/455 with 23 HR and 41 BB

2019 Mazara (1.0 oWAR) - 268/318/469 with 19 HR and 28 BB (24 HR and 36 BB over a full season)

What am I missing? Sorry to derail the conversation, but it bothered me

Offense was up league wide due to the juiced ball.

1 minute ago, oneofthemikes said:

I started digging around a bit looking at the early career of Marcell Ozuna and Nomar Mazara (the hope being that maybe Menechino can help Mazara the way he did in the 5th year of Ozuna's career). Can someone smarter than me explain why the WAR values (specifically oWAR) are so much different between Ozuna's 2014 and Mazara's 2019?

2014 Ozuna (3.5 oWAR) - 269/317/455 with 23 HR and 41 BB

2019 Mazara (1.0 oWAR) - 268/318/469 with 19 HR and 28 BB (24 HR and 36 BB over a full season)

What am I missing? Sorry to derail the conversation, but it bothered me

It's influenced by the rest of the league.  2019 was a joke offensively league wide.

3 minutes ago, oneofthemikes said:

I started digging around a bit looking at the early career of Marcell Ozuna and Nomar Mazara (the hope being that maybe Menechino can help Mazara the way he did in the 5th year of Ozuna's career). Can someone smarter than me explain why the WAR values (specifically oWAR) are so much different between Ozuna's 2014 and Mazara's 2019?

2014 Ozuna (3.5 oWAR) - 269/317/455 with 23 HR and 41 BB

2019 Mazara (1.0 oWAR) - 268/318/469 with 19 HR and 28 BB (24 HR and 36 BB over a full season)

What am I missing? Sorry to derail the conversation, but it bothered me

Performance of the rest of the league, park factors.

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by daggins

I agree it is definitely an upgrade and if there would have been other success outside of Grandal, more people would probably be excited, but it just seems WHite Sox by past standard that they will be content with cheaper piecemealing.  I know they tried on Wheeler, but did they have a real plan after that?  It does need to be a wait and see because the offseason isn't over, but outside of a trade or spending large sums, the biggest glaring weakness has not been addressed.  I mean Poppy even said we need 4 quality pitchers.  I would like us to start with one:)

5 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He'll be a FA the year after he re-signs.  Mazaras contract runs out then so maybe we can make him an offer.

I forgot about that!

Sox RF was -4 WAR while TEX RF was -1 WAR so that adds three wins.

4 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Why do we think the Mazara move says this at all?  Mazara is under control for two years. Betts, Springer, and Pederson are free agents after next season.  Betts is a pipe dream and Springer is likely as well.  I think this move is more of a statement that the Sox really like Mazara and think he will pan out.  I don’t think it in any way indicates that the Sox are waiting for a better target next offseason.

Because if Mazara doesn't improve drastically, he is non-tendered after 2020.  Its not that hard to figure out.  He's basically a 1 year player on a $5.5-$6M deal with a club option at $8-9M.  If he doesn't blossom in 2020, he's gone.  

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

"This trade for Samardzija is a better option than paying what Scherzer or Lester will get, if it doesn't work out they aren't  out much, not like they gave up a future MVP candidate."

This for hitters not pitchers. The TOR need to be traded for or developed for a team like the Sox who aren't going to have a budget near 200 mil.

10 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

Seems like we have two camps on this trade. People who are excited that the White Sox won't have the worst RF situation in baseball next year and people who upset that the White Sox are not trying to get meaningfully better.

 

JRs real advice to that Marlins guy should have been "always have one of the worst positions in baseball on your team, that way, any improvement makes the fans satiated. Gives them that little bit of excitement that this might be the year"

4 minutes ago, Hatchetman said:

Sox RF was -4 WAR while TEX RF was -1 WAR so that adds three wins.

It's so sad that you have to laugh.

21 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

If the Sox are passing on Castellanos/Ozuna's pricetag, they sure as hell will not be in on guys like Betts/Springer next offseason. 

This is a silly assumption.

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

This for hitters not pitchers. The TOR need to be traded for or developed for a team like the Sox who aren't going to have a budget near 200 mil.

So how much money is Giolito going to cost if he keeps trending up?  Do you see us locking him up for what he gets valued at when the time comes.   Same with Moncada.   Eventually these guys get to FA.  And hoping they will all take team friendly deals is a bit over reaching.  

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

JRs real advice to that Marlins guy should have been "always have one of the worst positions in baseball on your team, that way, any improvement makes the fans satiated. Gives them that little bit of excitement that this might be the year"

The White Sox really need new ownership.

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by chetkincaid

15 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

A lot has been said in here about this trade, but it's pretty simple:

This is a good overall trade. Getting 24 year old Nomar M. for pretty much nothing is NICE. Don't believe me? Look through twitter comments and see what Ranger fans think and other baseball fans think.

The problem is that a lot of us feel this is the ONLY move that the w'Sox will make in RF. That's a big problem, but let's just wait and see what happens. If the W'sox go into the season with Mazaraa penciled in as our right fielder, then yeah, Hahn is a fucking moron. 

This translates into: I threw a fit this morning, but the rest of baseball likes this trade, so let me attempt to retract without actually taking blame. 

Why do I feel like the same people saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2021" will be saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2022" a year from now?

1 minute ago, southsideirish71 said:

So how much money is Giolito going to cost if he keeps trending up?  Do you see us locking him up for what he gets valued at when the time comes.   Same with Moncada.   Eventually these guys get to FA.  And hoping they will all take team friendly deals is a bit over reaching.  

The Sox have shown that they will pay for their own like buerhle. However, you are correct that they will need to make decisions on who to keep and who to deal. The FO said during the mchado debacle that part of the reason not to go higher was looking to the future to resign their own star players.

4 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

It's so sad that you have to laugh.

But, let's say he even gets to 2 WAR.

THAT'S A 6 WAR UPGRADE. Boom.

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Why do I feel like the same people saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2021" will be saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2022" a year from now?

Maybe, and I would like them to push more into the middle this year obviously.

They're not the favorite for those guys, but I'm just not a big fan of signing a guy to a huge contract just because. Castellanos and Ozuna have question marks, as does Mazara. One requires a lot bigger commitment to see what happens than the other guy.

So, hypothetically....you are the Sox brass and  the Rangers offer up Mazara for Steele Walker. Would  you say "no" ?    If so, the sh1t you're smoking ain't legal for a few more days.

I just looked at Mazara's You Tube highlights and he looks like what we might expect from a guy in his early twenties that was trying to learn on the fly in the majors. His spray chart looks pretty good to me with gap power to Left Center and his power is ridiculous.  Longest HR in the majors last season. He does not run very well but he has a cannon for an arm.

As Sir had mentioned,  you have to evaluate how this player fits into our line-up. I think Mazara fits in pretty well.

If the Sox get Castellanos, Beintendi, the Sox could flip Mazara. There are teams that were interested in him including Arizona (fe.g. a possibpe trade chip in a package for Robbie Ray).

For your eye test:

 

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why do I feel like the same people saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2021" will be saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2022" a year from now?

It all depends on if the teams wins. If they dont start winning, it will be a new FO in 2022. If they win then it really doesnt matter.

11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because if Mazara doesn't improve drastically, he is non-tendered after 2020.  Its not that hard to figure out.  He's basically a 1 year player on a $5.5-$6M deal with a club option at $8-9M.  If he doesn't blossom in 2020, he's gone.  

This^

21 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

Seems like we have two camps on this trade. People who are excited that the White Sox won't have the worst RF situation in baseball next year and people who upset that the White Sox are not trying to get meaningfully better.

 

I am in both camps.