14 minutes ago, Steve9347 said:

We're in a handy dandy world where advanced statistics in baseball are so mature that we can see the truth behind the numbers. FIP is a much better representation of production than ERA.

How are we still having this convo.

Listen, I like Sabes and all. For some guys you have to weed through the advanced stats. FIP is mostly K based. A guy with an ERA over 4.00 that has a 10+ K/9 will always underperform his FIP. At some point you have to ask yourself why. 

Outside of his CY season, his last two seasons had him with an ERA over 4.00

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

Would you guys trade Madrigal and Vaughn for Blake Snell right now?

The Rays still owe Kiermaier like a minimum of about 35m if you include the buyout for 2023. Didn't he have a bad year?

If they are so cost conscious, maybe we could take that contract off their hands in lieu of Vaughn or Madrigal and then supplement it with Bummer, ReyLo and a couple guys in the minors. 

4 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Sale was even more valuable than Snell in my opinion. Had not dealt with some of the injuries, back to back 200+ IP seasons and much higher WAR for Sale

Sale was the most valuable starting pitcher traded in ages and on a cheap contract

Jeez, I forget Sale was only 27 when he was dealt. Yeah, that's not very close. But I stand by Snell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quintana!

Just now, chetkincaid said:

Would you guys trade Madrigal and Vaughn for Blake Snell right now?

Yes easily

3 minutes ago, rowand's rowdies said:

Arenado became available yesterday afternoon.

Would Vaughn, Madrigal, Dahlquist & Thompson get it done? Could something along those lines be this interesting offer?

Rockies would accept that instantly.. 

Just now, chetkincaid said:

Would you guys trade Madrigal and Vaughn for Blake Snell right now?

I'd try like hell to keep Madrigal, but if it must happen it must happen. 

1 minute ago, chetkincaid said:

Would you guys trade Madrigal and Vaughn for Blake Snell right now?

No.. He semi-worries me. One outstanding year.

4 minutes ago, Steve9347 said:

My goodness. Soxtalk has really become something over the past few years. Moncada had big-league at bats and was the #1 prospect in all of baseball at time of the trade.

He was not. He was anywhere from #2 to #20 depending on who you asked. 

Kopech was in the bottom 1/4 of most T100 lists when the Sox acquired him, in the 70-100 range. 

With Vaughn and Madrigal, you're getting two top 40 prospects, and one top 25. 

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

Just now, fathom said:

Yes easily

oh thank god, fathom is here to bring some reality to the convo

 

thank you

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

And Vaughn and Madrigal is arguably a better package than Moncada and Kopech at the time of the trade. 

Hold on, what in the flying fuck? 

2 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

Would you guys trade Madrigal and Vaughn for Blake Snell right now?

Only if we also sign Rendon

Just now, cjgalloway said:

No.. He semi-worries me. One outstanding year.

His advanced statistics are nuts. He pitched almost as well last year as he did in his Cy Young season!

Just now, chetkincaid said:

Would you guys trade Madrigal and Vaughn for Blake Snell right now?

Not both...no.

We're sitting on a pile of money so they need to exhaust creative financial engineering to make a trade work before giving away both. Hell no. It's disgusting that we would have to give away both when we have loads of cash. 

Find a team the Rays like some prospects from, take a bad contract off the hands of said team, give the Rays the prospects plus some non-untouchables from us.

6 minutes ago, rowand's rowdies said:

Arenado became available yesterday afternoon.

Would Vaughn, Madrigal, Dahlquist & Thompson get it done? Could something along those lines be this interesting offer?

Arenado has a career .799 OPS away from Coors. 

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He was not. He was anywhere from #2 to #20 depending on who you asked. 

Kopech was in the bottom 1/4 of most T100 lists when the Sox acquired him, in the 70-100 range. 

With Vaughn and Madrigal, you're getting two top 40 prospects, and one top 25. 

Keith Law has Madrigal at #110.

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

Hold on, what in the flying fuck? 

Did you see the caveat at the end of the sentence. "At the time of the trade"  are the key words. 

1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Not both...no.

We're sitting on a pile of money so they need to exhaust creative financial engineering to make a trade work before giving away both. Hell no. It's disgusting that we would have to give away both when we have loads of cash. 

Find a team the Rays like some prospects from, take a bad contract off the hands of said team, give the Rays the prospects plus some non-untouchables from us.

I like this idea a lot better than giving up Madrigal and Vaughn.

3 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Keith Law has Madrigal at #110.

Madrigal is a polarizing prospect. BP has him top 20, IIRC. They love him. 

I just looked up the BP T101. Madrigal is #12 on their list. 

Edited December 11, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Keith Law has Madrigal at #110.

He also was way down on Moncada, and that hasn't turned out super well.  Not sure if he's changed his tune on Robert, but he was lower on him than most everyone else this past summer. 

I would feel a lot more confident about potential trades if we had a good front office.

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Not both...no.

We're sitting on a pile of money so they need to exhaust creative financial engineering to make a trade work before giving away both. Hell no. It's disgusting that we would have to give away both when we have loads of cash. 

Find a team the Rays like some prospects from, take a bad contract off the hands of said team, give the Rays the prospects plus some non-untouchables from us.

Teams usually don't use elite trade assets to dump salaries. Especially not organizations like the Rays.  

10 minutes ago, rowand's rowdies said:

Arenado became available yesterday afternoon.

Would Vaughn, Madrigal, Dahlquist & Thompson get it done? Could something along those lines be this interesting offer?

Where did that report come out?

1 minute ago, NCsoxfan said:

I would feel a lot more confident about potential trades if we had a good front office.

Me too. I hope they stand pat in terms of any trades tight now.  Just go after remaining FA.

22 minutes ago, Steve9347 said:

Snell is like getting Chris Sale locked up for his prime.

Reading Comprehension? Read what you wrote and explain how you DIDN'T compare Chris Sale and Snell.