COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Quin]

16 hours ago, Tony said:

No they aren't. If you want to play "I don't have any facts, but I'll just go with my gut." then I'll play as well. 

People are full of shit. They aren't suddenly "afraid" of the vaccine, they are following what their friends and favorite politicians say on Facebook. I'm willing to bet there is a large swath of people who are "afraid to take the vaccine" are also spilling cigarette ash on their keyboard while they share their thoughts on social media about how they won't put something potentially harmful into their bodies. 

Saw this yesterday as well. Terribly sad as this guy should still be alive, but Fox News and Facebook killed him. 

 

I learned that one of my friends has never gotten a vaccine of any kind because he thinks it'll turn people into zombies.

I kept explaining to him how the benefits of getting it, downsides of not getting it (other than, well, death), and why he won't actually turn into a zombie, but I might need to go with him to get the shot for him to actually be willing to get it.

When he told me that was the reason it blew my mind.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

I have come across people who are afraid to get the vaccine too, but they say they want more data first, but do not specify how much data and what else they need to see. It’s mine they are running the clock out on the pandemic. I want to know what they fear from taking a vaccine, as in what will happen to them. Is it death? Is it something that harms their other medical conditions? It doesn’t make sense.

I can answer your question as I deathly feared the vaccines after listening to different videos and reading some stuff and my growing anger at how I feel we've been lied to a lot over political reasons and our weird sudden love of China. ... What do they fear you ask. Death? Answer: Uh, yes. I feared getting a severe reaction either right after the shot went in or within a day or so. I read that there were some deaths and also my nephew went down in a heap (he's OK) five minutes after getting Johnson and Johnson. He passed out and hit his head going down. Yes they feared either death, hospitalization or what's still out there, long-term side effects. For some reason I'm not that worried about those rite now. Peace.

[The Beast]

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

I can answer your question as I deathly feared the vaccines after listening to different videos and reading some stuff and my growing anger at how I feel we've been lied to a lot over political reasons and our weird sudden love of China. ... What do they fear you ask. Death? Answer: Uh, yes. I feared getting a severe reaction either right after the shot went in or within a day or so. I read that there were some deaths and also my nephew went down in a heap (he's OK) five minutes after getting Johnson and Johnson. He passed out and hit his head going down. Yes they feared either death, hospitalization or what's still out there, long-term side effects. For some reason I'm not that worried about those rite now. Peace.

What does your statement over the “sudden love of China” mean? What lies were told for political reasons? Do you know anyone who wants more data before they get the vaccine?

[southsider2k5]

50 minutes ago, The Beast said:

What does your statement over the “sudden love of China” mean? What lies were told for political reasons? Do you know anyone who wants more data before they get the vaccine?

The only people saying this are the ones not believing in science anyway. Data isn't the problem.  People believing Russian propaganda about covid is the problem. 

[greg775]

3 hours ago, The Beast said:

What does your statement over the “sudden love of China” mean? What lies were told for political reasons? Do you know anyone who wants more data before they get the vaccine?

No way I'm going into any of this on the board. I'm sure I'd get banned. I'm trying hard to stay within the rules.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The only people saying this are the ones not believing in science anyway. Data isn't the problem.  People believing Russian propaganda about covid is the problem. 

How come u can't believe some of us are scared to take the vaccine. I took it anyway (two moderna shots) after going through all the reasons to take it vs. not taking it. I overcame my fear of the vaccine. The brain works in mysterious ways which is why we have so many prescription drugs to help cure wild thoughts, mood swings, erratic psych behavior. Some of us were afraid. Some still are afraid to be vaccinated.

Edited June 28, 2021 by greg775

[greg775]

3 hours ago, The Beast said:

Do you know anyone who wants more data before they get the vaccine?

Yes, there's a lady at church who wants to "wait and see." She's afraid of vaccine.

[CentralChamps21]

53 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Yes, there's a lady at church who wants to "wait and see." She's afraid of vaccine.

How long does she need to wait? The first people were vaccinated 6 months ago.

What does she need to see? The data showing that the number of lives saved by COVID is far, far outweighing the handful of complications.

"Wait and see" means "The opinion of my political party is different from what the data is saying, so I'm going to go looking for data that is different so I can claim I'm basing my decisions on science rather than politics."

[The Beast]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The only people saying this are the ones not believing in science anyway. Data isn't the problem.  People believing Russian propaganda about covid is the problem. 

The odd thing is that I know people who are college educated and even voted for Biden who won’t get the vaccine because of the data argument. I haven’t pressed them on it but I have heard because it was rushed and doesn’t have full FDA approval.

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

No way I'm going into any of this on the board. I'm sure I'd get banned. I'm trying hard to stay within the rules.

Why drop tea leaves of what you want to say and not elaborate? What is it about what you said that is political? Just say it.

30 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

How long does she need to wait? The first people were vaccinated 6 months ago.

What does she need to see? The data showing that the number of lives saved by COVID is far, far outweighing the handful of complications.

"Wait and see" means "The opinion of my political party is different from what the data is saying, so I'm going to go looking for data that is different so I can claim I'm basing my decisions on science rather than politics."

That’s the question I want to ask these people, what data do they need to see?

[CentralChamps21]

5 minutes ago, The Beast said:

The odd thing is that I know people who are college educated and even voted for Biden who won’t get the vaccine because of the data argument. I haven’t pressed them on it but I have heard because it was rushed and doesn’t have full FDA approval.

There is a lack of understanding of the relationship between Emergency Use Authorization and Full FDA Approval because Emergency Use Authorization has never come into play in such a widespread manner before, so very few people have heard of it or understand it.

The time it takes to get full FDA approval makes it really inconsequential in the midst of a pandemic that is this severe and spreads this quickly. If we didn't use these vaccines before full FDA approval, the Delta variant would have wiped out another million or so people by now.

Cancer patients whose life expectancy is measured in months rather than years use new drugs and treatments that are Emergency Use Authorization all the time.

[Heads22]

Everything aside -

 

greg, thank you for overcoming your hesitancy and getting vaccinated. I'm sure if you had super adverse side effects, you would have let us know. From everything we have seen, you're still doing alright. Moreover, you have not gotten infected, or if you did you had no symptoms, which is another thing the vaccines help with. You may have helped make sure others did not get sick or die. 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

"Wait and see" means "The opinion of my political party is different from what the data is saying, so I'm going to go looking for data that is different so I can claim I'm basing my decisions on science rather than politics."

Maybe but I saw and heard the fear expressed by her. I didn't even bother to try to talk her out of it, I just said, "I had no problems with the vaccine. I've been apprehensive as well but I got the shots. Fortunately no problems." I even told her to talk to the nurse who admins the shot. I gave her the name of the store I got mine at. I said "after you talk to the nurse you should feel better about this." She said not happening,

[greg775]

32 minutes ago, Heads22 said:

Everything aside -

 

greg, thank you for overcoming your hesitancy and getting vaccinated. I'm sure if you had super adverse side effects, you would have let us know. From everything we have seen, you're still doing alright. Moreover, you have not gotten infected, or if you did you had no symptoms, which is another thing the vaccines help with. You may have helped make sure others did not get sick or die. 

Thank u. So far so good regarding me and covid and me and vaccines. I do think if the hesitant weigh "everything" the logical conclusion is to sign up for the shot, then as I did, ask the nurse a few questions, and see if you feel a good vibe or a bad one. I felt a good vibe and confidently took both shots. On the second one I didn't even ask any questions as I did before the first one. Personally ... I really would like to avoid COVID.

[raBBit]

I am vaccinated but open minded. To me, given the vaccine availability in both quantity and the facilities administering it, there should have been a set date that everyone who wants to get vaccinated, gets vaccinated by.

To everyone simply quoting the word "science" for their beliefs on the vaccine, why did the MNC pharmaceutical companies need to be exempted from suit if the science/vaccine is science is so well understood and the vaccine is so safe?  If that were the case I don't know why they would be concerned with any potential suits. It's just a little strange seeing all the people shilling for the corporations/pharmaceutical companies.

[Soxbadger]

2 hours ago, raBBit said:

I am vaccinated but open minded. To me, given the vaccine availability in both quantity and the facilities administering it, there should have been a set date that everyone who wants to get vaccinated, gets vaccinated by.

To everyone simply quoting the word "science" for their beliefs on the vaccine, why did the MNC pharmaceutical companies need to be exempted from suit if the science/vaccine is science is so well understood and the vaccine is so safe?  If that were the case I don't know why they would be concerned with any potential suits. It's just a little strange seeing all the people shilling for the corporations/pharmaceutical companies.

Why did employers want liability shields if there was no risk to their employees?

You always do whatever you can to limit your client's exposure when you negotiate. 

[raBBit]

28 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Why did employers want liability shields if there was no risk to their employees?

 You always do whatever you can to limit your client's exposure when you negotiate. 

Employers liability shields are a totally different subject. Everybody is aware of why someone would want to limit risk in business. Changing the subject doesn't answer my question.

If these vaccines are "science" and all the data supports them, what exposure do the pharmaceutical companies need protection from? If there is nothing wrong with the vaccines why would they need the government to give them immunity? Why do so many Americans blindly support the government allowing pharmaceutical companies to operate without being accountable if there unintended were issues with their product? Given everyone is so sure there is no potential for liability with the vaccines, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that Big Pharma made sure to work with the government to get immunity. Wouldn't everyone feel safer if they had recourse in case something did go wrong?

Just a little weird how many love and trust Big Pharma without question. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by raBBit

[Soxbadger]

31 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Employers liability shields are a totally different subject. Everybody is aware of why someone would want to limit risk in business. Changing the subject doesn't answer my question.

If these vaccines are "science" and all the data supports them, what exposure do the pharmaceutical companies need protection from? If there is nothing wrong with the vaccines why would they need the government to give them immunity? Why do so many Americans blindly support the government allowing pharmaceutical companies to operate without being accountable if there unintended were issues with their product? Given everyone is so sure there is no potential for liability with the vaccines, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that Big Pharma made sure to work with the government to get immunity. Wouldn't everyone feel safer if they had recourse in case something did go wrong?

Just a little weird how many love and trust Big Pharma without question. 

Ill let you answer your own question:

Everybody is aware of why someone would want to limit risk in business.

 

Pharmaceutical companies are a business, their primary objective is to make money. If their legal team feels that they can leverage a crisis for immunity, which will give them an economic advantage, they are going to do it. 

And I dont support the govt giving anyone immunity, but the pharmaceutical companies had a lot of leverage in this specific example. 

[Jack Parkman]

4 hours ago, raBBit said:

Employers liability shields are a totally different subject. Everybody is aware of why someone would want to limit risk in business. Changing the subject doesn't answer my question.

If these vaccines are "science" and all the data supports them, what exposure do the pharmaceutical companies need protection from? If there is nothing wrong with the vaccines why would they need the government to give them immunity? Why do so many Americans blindly support the government allowing pharmaceutical companies to operate without being accountable if there unintended were issues with their product? Given everyone is so sure there is no potential for liability with the vaccines, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that Big Pharma made sure to work with the government to get immunity. Wouldn't everyone feel safer if they had recourse in case something did go wrong?

Just a little weird how many love and trust Big Pharma without question. 

I did it because the risk of not doing it is higher than the risk of doing it, but anytime the profit motive is involved you have to question everything. 

The biggest complications of the vaccines seen so far is the weird blood clots in women and myocarditis, which is common among people who get covid anyway and is treatable. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, greg775 said:

How come u can't believe some of us are scared to take the vaccine. I took it anyway (two moderna shots) after going through all the reasons to take it vs. not taking it. I overcame my fear of the vaccine. The brain works in mysterious ways which is why we have so many prescription drugs to help cure wild thoughts, mood swings, erratic psych behavior. Some of us were afraid. Some still are afraid to be vaccinated.

Oh I fully believe people are scared. But their reasons to be scared are garbage for the most part. 

[greg775]

6 hours ago, raBBit said:

Why do so many Americans blindly support the government allowing pharmaceutical companies to operate without being accountable if there unintended were issues with their product? 

Just a little weird how many love and trust Big Pharma without question. 

Rabbit is on to something here. Look ... in 2021 NOBODY should trust the government, Republicans or Democrats. NOBODY should trust mayors or governors blindly. Folks these are uncharted waters. Trust only your family, folks. Everything else take with a grain of salt. We so badly need leaders in it for the right reasons and I'm not referring to becoming very wealthy.

Edited June 29, 2021 by greg775

[Jack Parkman]

30 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Rabbit is on to something here. Look ... in 2021 NOBODY should trust the government, Republicans or Democrats. NOBODY should trust mayors or governors blindly. Folks these are uncharted waters. Trust only your family, folks. Everything else take with a grain of salt. We so badly need leaders in it for the right reasons and I'm not referring to becoming very wealthy.

Nobody should trust corporations, who own the government, and whose sole purpose is to make money no matter the human cost either. 

If it comes down to business or the government, I trust the government 7 days of the week and twice on Sundays. At least there is some bit of accountability, however small, to elected officials from the law and voters. 

Corporations are beholden to nothing but the almighty dollar. Your company's CEO would kill you if it made a profit and they were free of liability.  Remember that. You mean nothing to them. Just another cog in the machine. 

Government exists to hold them in check and make sure they behave in the common interest of the people, or at least that's how it's supposed to work in a democracy. 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[greg775]

23 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Nobody should trust corporations, who own the government, and whose sole purpose is to make money no matter the human cost either. 

If it comes down to business or the government, I trust the government 7 days of the week and twice on Sundays. At least there is some bit of accountability, however small, to elected officials from the law and voters. 

 Corporations are beholden to nothing but the almighty dollar. Your company's CEO would kill you if it made a profit and they were free of liability.  Remember that. You mean nothing to them. Just another cog in the machine. 

Government exists to hold them in check and make sure they behave in the common interest of the people, or at least that's how it's supposed to work in a democracy. 

 

Oh I don't trust corporations either. I said to trust nobody but your family. Times have changed. There are a lot of sinister people in government and of course business. I can only list maybe 5 politicians I "like" and of course I would never list them here. Too much hatred and unwillingness to agree to disagree everywhere in 2021. If somebody has a view different from somebody else .... look out.

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Oh I don't trust corporations either. I said to trust nobody but your family. Times have changed. There are a lot of sinister people in government and of course business. I can only list maybe 5 politicians I "like" and of course I would never list them here. Too much hatred and unwillingness to agree to disagree everywhere in 2021. If somebody has a view different from somebody else .... look out.

Fascism is the merger of corporate and state interests. We're definitely a proto-fascist government right now. The seeds are there. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, raBBit said:

I am vaccinated but open minded. To me, given the vaccine availability in both quantity and the facilities administering it, there should have been a set date that everyone who wants to get vaccinated, gets vaccinated by.

To everyone simply quoting the word "science" for their beliefs on the vaccine, why did the MNC pharmaceutical companies need to be exempted from suit if the science/vaccine is science is so well understood and the vaccine is so safe?  If that were the case I don't know why they would be concerned with any potential suits. It's just a little strange seeing all the people shilling for the corporations/pharmaceutical companies.

Because of the way it was rushed like no vaccine in world history, as well as the potentially game changing but "controversial" mRNA platform. 

I just met a French guy at the airport here in China yestetday who seemed scared to death of spike protein/mRNA consequences down the line and expressed support for Chinese vaccines after I affirmed I was definitely still going to get the Pfizer booster after two SinoPharm shots.  

 

"It's not going to be as pervasive," Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration, said Sunday. "It's going to hyper-regionalized. There's certain pockets of the country where you're going to have very dense outbreaks."

Those pockets will be ones with low vaccination rates and low rates of prior infection, Gottlieb said, like in many rural and southern communities.

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 46.1% of the total US population has been vaccinated against Covid-19. Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Wyoming are among the states with the lowest vaccination rates, with less than 35% of their population fully vaccinated. 

CNN.com

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

Rabbit is on to something here. Look ... in 2021 NOBODY should trust the government, Republicans or Democrats. NOBODY should trust mayors or governors blindly. Folks these are uncharted waters. Trust only your family, folks. Everything else take with a grain of salt. We so badly need leaders in it for the right reasons and I'm not referring to becoming very wealthy.

That's fine if you have chemists, virologists, epidemiologists and doctors in your family, but at a certain point we all have to make informed decisions based on research of all the available up to date information. 

Very few governments around the world have consistently distinguished themselves throughout the pandemic. It's arguably a number less than you can count on your fingers out of 200+. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by caulfield12