February 10, 20206 yr 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Here are Mazara’s splits against RHP from June to August after some approach changes and before going down with oblique & thumb injuries: .333/.382/.593/.975 (143 wRC+). Yes, that line is partially fueled by a .400 BABIP but the. 260 ISO is legit and that led to 15 2B’s & 8 HR’s in about 165 plate appearances. Come on, man. Using a SSS-in-garbage-time argument to prop up Mazara is a bad argument. Especially for 2019, the year of "The Super Happy Fun Juiced Ball." No offense, but we can all "hope" he'll be better than what his numbers say. But KenHahn made an egocentric choice to pick this guy up. And yes, the existence of BOTH Eloy and Mazara means that Engel is all but guaranteed to be here, since neither Jimenez nor Mazara can play defense.
February 10, 20206 yr 26 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Come on, man. Using a SSS-in-garbage-time argument to prop up Mazara is a bad argument. Especially for 2019, the year of "The Super Happy Fun Juiced Ball." No offense, but we can all "hope" he'll be better than what his numbers say. But KenHahn made an egocentric choice to pick this guy up. And yes, the existence of BOTH Eloy and Mazara means that Engel is all but guaranteed to be here, since neither Jimenez nor Mazara can play defense. Did you just call June to August “garbage time” for a team that was nearly .500? Yes, it is a small sample size, but Nomar did make some legit approach changes that impacted his batted ball profile (there are articles on this if you don’t believe me). This is the reason teams have scouts, to find guys that are at the beginning of an upward trajectory. Whether or not he’s that guy remains to be seen, but the Sox certainly feel that way and good clubs routinely acquire under-valued assets. It may be a bold or even risky move to gamble on upside, but calling it ego-centric just reeks of disdain for our front office.
February 10, 20206 yr 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Did you just call June to August “garbage time” for a team that was nearly .500? Yes, it is a small sample size, but Nomar did make some legit approach changes that impacted his batted ball profile (there are articles on this if you don’t believe me). This is the reason teams have scouts, to find guys that are at the beginning of an upward trajectory. Whether or not he’s that guy remains to be seen, but the Sox certainly feel that way and good clubs routinely acquire under-valued assets. It may be a bold or even risky move to gamble on upside, but calling it ego-centric just reeks of disdain for our front office. Yes, it was garbage time for a team that was never really in contention. But more importantly, you did just admit it was SSS. Which makes it a bad argument. And you placing trust in THIS org's scouting is misplaced, given their repeated and abject failures over the years. Also, getting excited over "approach changes" rarely pays off, in all honesty. (Unless you believe Texas to be dumber than KenHahn.) And yes, Kenny in particular, too often believes himself to be the smartest man in the room. Which lends him to be irrationally exuberant too often. I think them adding a career 59 wrc+ v. LHP Mazara, and a 37 year old DH are examples of this irrational exuberance. And yes, egocentrism.
February 10, 20206 yr 2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Yes, it was garbage time for a team that was never really in contention. But more importantly, you did just admit it was SSS. Which makes it a bad argument. And you placing trust in THIS org's scouting is misplaced, given their repeated and abject failures over the years. Also, getting excited over "approach changes" rarely pays off, in all honesty. (Unless you believe Texas to be dumber than KenHahn.) And yes, Kenny in particular, too often believes himself to be the smartest man in the room. Which lends him to be irrationally exuberant too often. I think them adding a career 59 wrc+ v. LHP Mazara, and a 37 year old DH are examples of this irrational exuberance. And yes, egocentrism. Calling any half of a season “garbage time” is one of the most boggling statements I have ever seen on this site. And citing something as a SSS does not make something a bad argument unless one is stating something with absolute conviction based on that data. I have never once argued that Nomar will be a stud, I simply showed his stats after making some approach changes to show that maybe there is reason for hope for him. I have no strong convictions either way, but I do think when evaluating young players that SSS’s should be taken into consideration given the fact that development isn’t linear and things oftentimes can just suddenly click for talented young guys. Finally, to say approach changes rarely work out when we’re in the middle of the juiced ball era is just silly. Mazara has elite power potential and even small tweaks could have huge dividends. Again, no promises there, but it appears he was starting to improve his fly ball rate last year and that’s a big start.
February 10, 20206 yr The timing of the Mazara trade left a lot of us puzzled and provoked a lot of doubt in the FO based on their history in FA. Had it come after other acquisitions I think the perceptions would have been much different. I myself was ready to excoriate them after making no other moves at the winter meetings, but I have warmed up to the deal quite a lot. Would I prefer Joc to Mazara, yes, but that ship has sailed. And the Sox aren't going to dump a guy they've been talking up all winter, invited to Soxfest, etc, just days before pitchers and catchers report. It's not how they operate. Let's give the kid a chance to prove his late season adjustments weren't a fluke before tossing him to the curb for the next bright shiny name to pop up in trade rumors. Edited February 10, 20206 yr by SouthWallace
February 10, 20206 yr I hope for the best out of Mazara. I haven't watched the kid enough to know what his true issues are & am not going to try and figure it out via stats. A few things are probably pretty evident -- he's got the talent to perhaps be a star. As we saw with Avi Garcia or maybe even a Dayan Viciedo it's not always as easy as "hit ball hard" and have success. We can tout age, new team, new instructors, change of pace, etc. etc. etc. but its probably more likely than not that Mazara is basically what he's show. Maybe something clicks and he taps into the talent like Avi has shown flashes of - that's what we can hope for. In other news -- Joc and Stripling being traded and then pulled back .... we should be looking at that. We're not ever competing with the Dodgers or Yankees for a WS this year, however if you can get Joc and/or Stripling for a return that doesn't jeopardize your future I think you definitely have to explore. Stripling has long been one of my favorite fantasy weapons - the guy just throws the ball well. I think he's been stuck in a poor spot on the Dodgers bouncing between the rotation and bullpen which is unfortunate becuase i think he'd be a Quintana/Musgrove/Miley/Keuchel type of SP. A guy who keeps you in games and generally doesn't blow up. #3/4 type guy. Obviously we have too much pitching (in theory) already with Lopez, Gio&Gio, Keuchel, Cease, Kopech, Rodon, Dunning, etc. etc. So maybe adding Stripling isn't the best use of talent - but he would make the team better.
February 10, 20206 yr 2 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Yes, it was garbage time for a team that was never really in contention. There's no such thing as garbage time for guys who have millions of dollars on the line.
February 10, 20206 yr No such thing as too many good players. Fit might not be perfect right now but is Joc an upgrade to an outfielder on our roster? Yes. Has the front office shown interest in him before? Yes. Can he be had for relatively cheap? Possibly. Can’t let Nomar Mazara stop you from upgrading. Get it done! Edited February 10, 20206 yr by Orlando
February 10, 20206 yr 26 minutes ago, Orlando said: No such thing as too many good players. Fit might not be perfect right now but is Joc an upgrade to anyone on our roster? Yes. Has the front office shown interest in him before? Yes. Can he be had for relatively cheap? Possibly. Can’t let Nomar Mazara stop you from upgrading. Get it done! Adding Joc means 2 RF on the same side of the platoon. And who sits for the other? And whose roster spot does Joc take? Because Mazara sure isn't a defensive bench piece. I agree with the premise that you can never have too many good players, but there are only so many roster spots. Edited February 10, 20206 yr by SouthWallace
February 10, 20206 yr I don’t remember who it was, but I was arguing with someone last offseason that Moncada’s strong September in 2018 was a good sign because he was using a completely different approach, and all I got was, “it doesn’t matter because it was September”. Sure enough, it was basically the same approach he used in 2019. In other words, I totally agree that 165 PAs is a SSS, but you can’t throw them away when a new approach or other significant changes are being employed. Edited February 10, 20206 yr by Jose Abreu
February 10, 20206 yr Just now, SouthWallace said: Adding Joc means 2 RF on the wrong side of the platoon. And who sits for the other? And whose roster spot does Joc take? Because Mazara sure isn't a defensive bench piece. I agree with the premise that you can never have too many good players, but there are only so many roster spots. They are both on the strong side of the platoon since there are more RHP than LHP. Joc is a better player than Mazara in basically every aspect of the game so Mazara would be your 4th OF. If you carried both then one of Engel, Mendick, or Collins would not be on the team. My guess would be Collins. McCann, Mazara, Mendick/Leury, Engel would be able to adequately cover the bench roles. Against a LHP you would either play Engel or Leury in RF and Mendick could cover 2B if it were Leury in RF.
February 10, 20206 yr 4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Here are Mazara’s splits against RHP from June to August after some approach changes and before going down with oblique & thumb injuries: .333/.382/.593/.975 (143 wRC+). Yes, that line is partially fueled by a .400 BABIP but the. 260 ISO is legit and that led to 15 2B’s & 8 HR’s in about 165 plate appearances. I’m not looking to do a rah-rah post here and I was plenty upset about the Mazara trade at the time, but that was before we added Encarnación to help anchor the middle of the lineup next year. Now with EE in the fold, I’m far more willing to gamble on Nomar’s update. This was a kid who got a $5M bonus and was consensus top 20 prospect in the game before reaching the majors. There is no doubting the talent and while I am with the group that argues age isn’t a skill, the reality is there is still plenty of room for growth when you are still just 24 years old and were brought to the major at an incredibly young age. Again, I would have preferred Joc over Mazara all else being equal, but the org has made it’s move and is not going to pay even more to acquire a redundant player in Pederson. IMO, we should give the front office the benefit of the doubt here and see how this plays out. The Sox are betting on on their own evaluations and if they’re right this could be a big win for us. If not, go ahead and rip them shreds after the season for going with a questionable RF option when the rest of their moves were geared towards winning now. For now, my primary concern is them using Nomar as an everyday guy. At bare minimum, I think he should be a useful strong side platoon RF, but the kid can not hit LHP and the org better not cute here by over-exposing him. Giving him everyday at-bats is a recipe for disaster and I wish he had a more proven platoon mate than Engel to avoid such temptation. Good post.
February 10, 20206 yr 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Did you just call June to August “garbage time” for a team that was nearly .500? Yes, it is a small sample size, but Nomar did make some legit approach changes that impacted his batted ball profile (there are articles on this if you don’t believe me). This is the reason teams have scouts, to find guys that are at the beginning of an upward trajectory. Whether or not he’s that guy remains to be seen, but the Sox certainly feel that way and good clubs routinely acquire under-valued assets. It may be a bold or even risky move to gamble on upside, but calling it ego-centric just reeks of disdain for our front office. He also battled a wrist injury for much of 18 and 19. Has said late in 2019 Season was first time his wrist had felt normal on years.
February 10, 20206 yr If anything, I think Ross Stripling is a better fit for the Sox than Pederson is at this point. I'd love to see the Sox swing a deal for him and make him the swingman/spot starter.
February 10, 20206 yr Source: The #WhiteSox have made significant progress on a potential Joc Pederson trade with the #Dodgers. — MLB Intel (@MLBintel) February 10, 2020 Lmao! ? Edited February 10, 20206 yr by maloney.adam
February 10, 20206 yr 7 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: Source: The #WhiteSox have made significant progress on a potential Joc Pederson trade with the #Dodgers. — MLB Intel (@MLBintel) February 10, 2020 Lmao! ? LOL. That account has been suspended. We all knew he was full of sh*t.
February 10, 20206 yr Just now, HakunaMachado said: Do we think the Sox have a legit chance at making a joc trade? No
February 10, 20206 yr How about we stop about the Joc Pederson talk and his 233 career batting average and his 1 year of contract control? Ridiculous
February 10, 20206 yr 10 minutes ago, SoxSteve said: How about we stop about the Joc Pederson talk and his 233 career batting average and his 1 year of contract control? Ridiculous Joc Pederson and his .233 career batting average would project to be the best OF on the White Sox next year.
February 10, 20206 yr 4 minutes ago, TomPickle said: Joc Pederson and his .233 career batting average would project to be the best OF on the White Sox next year. I have Eloy and Robert over him.
February 10, 20206 yr 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I have Eloy and Robert over him. ZiPS doesn't and Steamer has Robert slightly ahead, but that's a playing time thing. Robert 2.9 WAR in 143 games (578 PA) with Pederson at 2.7 in 100 games (438 PA).
February 10, 20206 yr 4 hours ago, bjm676 said: LOL. That account has been suspended. We all knew he was full of sh*t. You might sideline an oracle but you will never silence Him.
February 11, 20206 yr The Dodgers reacquired 25 year old OF prospect Luke Raley from the Twins as a part of the Maeda for Graterol swap. Raley was a former Dodgers prospect who was traded to the Twins in the Brian Dozier trade at the deadline in 2018. Raley is a lefty bat that plays the entire outfield and a little 1B. It’s pretty obvious that Joc is on his way out. Edited February 11, 20206 yr by Moan4Yoan
February 11, 20206 yr 10 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: The Dodgers reacquired 25 year old OF prospect Luke Raley from the Twins as a part of the Maeda for Graterol swap. Raley was a former Dodgers prospect who was traded to the Twins in the Brian Dozier trade at the deadline in 2018. Raley is a lefty bat that plays the entire outfield and a little 1B. It’s pretty obvious that Joc is on his way out. The Dodgers think so highly of pederson that they acquired a 25 year old prospect to replace him? Sorry, a cheap shot but I couldn't resist. Edited February 11, 20206 yr by ptatc
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.