2 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Are we twins or something?

I call dibs on devito

4 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Are we twins or something?

“Dram up upside” was meant to be “dream on upside”

4 hours ago, Blackout Friday said:

I know Burnes was phenomenal last year, but he was putrid in 2019 in a roughly equal sample. His pitch data changed significantly, also, but I need a better track record for that package. 

Interestingly his xFIP was roughly the same for both seasons, and suggest that the 2020 results are the ones to be trusted. 

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Burnes for Madrigal + Heuer + Stiever + Sheets.

Who says no?  Probably the Brewers, but that’s a lot of major league ready or near major league ready pieces for a mid-market team that could be open to retooling.  It probably depends on how they view Stiever, but he’s the closest thing we have to a major league ready pitching prospect with any sort of ceiling (not including Kopech).  I’m sure most clubs view Kelley as the superior prospect, but I’d imagine the Brewers would want pieces that are closer to the majors to even consider moving Burnes.  Still very interesting to think about.

Stiever is a WI kid and that might count for something. I just don't think Brewers would place much value on Madrigal as headliner. 2B is the one IF position where they have a decent player (Hiura). Cease might get their attention but I can see them insisting on Vaughn or Kopech to consider trading Burnes. The problem is they appear to be the de facto NL Central favorites despite their shortcomings, so less motivation to trade Burnes (but I'd love it).

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Burnes for Madrigal + Heuer + Stiever + Sheets.

Who says no?  Probably the Brewers, but that’s a lot of major league ready or near major league ready pieces for a mid-market team that could be open to retooling.  It probably depends on how they view Stiever, but he’s the closest thing we have to a major league ready pitching prospect with any sort of ceiling (not including Kopech).  I’m sure most clubs view Kelley as the superior prospect, but I’d imagine the Brewers would want pieces that are closer to the majors to even consider moving Burnes.  Still very interesting to think about.

I say no.  Madrigal & Heuer are needed on our club.  Free agency has quality pitchers available without giving up anyone.

Really?  Who is quality in FA that isn’t going to command at least $15 million per?  Q or Paxton whose metrics have been falling the last couple years?  Richards possibly but what if a bidding war happens?  I continue to be surprised by the people that think 2 question marks in your rotation is fine heading into the season.  I don’t want to throw away 1 season of the window playing what if.  The Bears do enough of that for this city:)

I think most White Sox fans would be happy to get Burnes for Madrigal/Stiever/Heuer/Sheets. I also think that's because there's no way Milwaukee would do the trade. 

18 minutes ago, Rusty_Kuntz said:

I think most White Sox fans would be happy to get Burnes for Madrigal/Stiever/Heuer/Sheets. I also think that's because there's no way Milwaukee would do the trade. 

If I were Milwaukee, I would do that trade. Stiever might be the wildcard and need some seasoning.

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I say no.  Madrigal & Heuer are needed on our club.  Free agency has quality pitchers available without giving up anyone.

Burnes went down with an oblique strain late last season (one out away from qualifying for ERA title) at which time he ranked second among NL qualifiers at 2.5 fWAR, second with 13.4 strikeouts per nine innings, third with a .174 opponents’ average and third with a 2.11 ERA. Five pitches, elite velo and spin rate and everything down in the zone. He had a 5 game stretch where he was damn near unhittable and, despite starting 2020 working out of the pen, he finished 6th in CY voting. I'd make him the odds on favorite to win the CY in '21. It is highly unlikely Brewers consider trading him but, if you believe as I do that convincing them would go a long way toward making Sox not just AL favorites but WS favorites, the question is...what would a realistic trade package look like? I doubt Madrigal as headliner would be interesting to Brewers. 

3 minutes ago, Flash said:

Burnes went down with an oblique strain late last season (one out away from qualifying for ERA title) at which time he ranked second among NL qualifiers at 2.5 fWAR, second with 13.4 strikeouts per nine innings, third with a .174 opponents’ average and third with a 2.11 ERA. Five pitches, elite velo and spin rate and everything down in the zone. He had a 5 game stretch where he was damn near unhittable and, despite starting 2020 working out of the pen, he finished 6th in CY voting. I'd make him the odds on favorite to win the CY in '21. It is highly unlikely Brewers consider trading him but, if you believe as I do that convincing them would go a long way toward making Sox not just AL favorites but WS favorites, the question is...what would a realistic trade package look like? I doubt Madrigal as headliner would be interesting to Brewers. 

You’d make him the odds on favorite to win the NL Cy Young based on awesome nine starts?   

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’d make him the odds on favorite to win the NL Cy Young based on awesome nine starts?   

Jacob DeGrom who?

If anyone is wondering why the Brewers would take Madrigal, it's because Hiura has less than stellar defense.

Here's a Brewers site speculating an eventual move to DH or first: https://reviewingthebrew.com/2020/11/13/milwaukee-brewers-2020-season-report-card-keston-hiura/

Burnes price starts with one of Vaughan/Kopech/Crochet and then add Stiever and another piece.

The Brewers have not need for Madrigal.

I am not opposed to that trade but I see no reason why the Brewers would move him.  The Brewers and Reds should be going all in now as the cubs take a step back.

The NL East and NL West are going to beat the crap out of each other, especially if he Marlins are not a flash in the pan.

 

Edited January 13, 20215 yr by Harry Chappas

1 minute ago, Quin said:

If anyone is wondering why the Brewers would take Madrigal, it's because Hiura has less than stellar defense.

Here's a Brewers site speculating an eventual move to DH or first: https://reviewingthebrew.com/2020/11/13/milwaukee-brewers-2020-season-report-card-keston-hiura/

Well I guess my case for them not wanting Madrigal is wrong.  

Maybe even it's one of those talks where it's, "Hey we are interested in Burnes, here's a package."  "Nope, we aren't trading Burnes but maybe Woodruff?".  Question, if Milwaukee says, take out Madrigal and replace with Kelley and we have a deal for Burnes (Kelley, Heuer, Stiever, Sheets) do you pull the trigger?  I still would as it's a place we have depth, but honestly even with Madrigal you are offering Milwaukee 3 of your top 10 prospects / MLB ready types.  I think there would be quite a few teams willing to listen from that buffet of choices

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’d make him the odds on favorite to win the NL Cy Young based on awesome nine starts?   

Obviously one mans opinion but only time will tell. 

53 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Burnes price starts with one of Vaughan/Kopech/Crochet and then add Stiever and another piece.

The Brewers have not need for Madrigal.

I am not opposed to that trade but I see no reason why the Brewers would move him.  The Brewers and Reds should be going all in now as the cubs take a step back.

The NL East and NL West are going to beat the crap out of each other, especially if he Marlins are not a flash in the pan.

 

Burnes hasn't pitched more than 100 innings in any single season since his A+/AA season in 2017.  If they want you to back up the truck for that, you walk away.  It scares me to be talking about dealing a lot of good prospects for a guy who has NEVER made it to 100 innings as a major league pitcher.

I'm trying to figure out why the Brewers would trade a young starting pitcher a year away from arbitration for a package of players that might actually make them worse.  

1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'm trying to figure out why the Brewers would trade a young starting pitcher a year away from arbitration for a package of players that might actually make them worse.  

The only reason is would be for a 'an offer they can't refuse'

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Burnes hasn't pitched more than 100 innings in any single season since his A+/AA season in 2017.  If they want you to back up the truck for that, you walk away.  It scares me to be talking about dealing a lot of good prospects for a guy who has NEVER made it to 100 innings as a major league pitcher.

Kopech hasn't thrown a pitch since early 2018. 

I mean right now the Brewers may well be the favorite in the NL Central.  I can't see them taking a step back this year unless they are under a mandate to cut salary, and even then a Burnes trade doesn't do anything for that.

1 minute ago, Flash said:

Kopech hasn't thrown a pitch since early 2018. 

And here I am campaigning for the Sox to bring in more starting pitching to fill innings.

7 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'm trying to figure out why the Brewers would trade a young starting pitcher a year away from arbitration for a package of players that might actually make them worse.  

Would have to be something with Vaughn involved

IF, and it's a big if...would you guys support a Vaughn headliner to Brewers with the plan to sign Brantley for 2 years? He is DH for those competitive years and Eloy slots in year 3 when Sox finally have Cespedes and Colas ready to go...plus FA LF shouldn't be too hard to get for a world series winning team

7 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

IF, and it's a big if...would you guys support a Vaughn headliner to Brewers with the plan to sign Brantley for 2 years? He is DH for those competitive years and Eloy slots in year 3 when Sox finally have Cespedes and Colas ready to go...plus FA LF shouldn't be too hard to get for a world series winning team

Yep go for it