1 minute ago, bmags said:

I think what people think of as stuff will vary. Giolito gets a lot of help out of his height and delivery. Hitters talk about how his change isn’t Johan Santana’s they just can never pick it up vs his fastball.

Burnes has the pitches I think of more in terms of stuff, but it’s also a lot of break instead of drop which usually isn’t my fav. But it looks fun.

There's two types of stuff. there's deception and movement. Gio's fastball and slider have more movement, but his change is elite because nobody can pick it up. 

When I talk about 4SFB movement I'm referring to carry and run. 

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by Jack Parkman

12 minutes ago, Flash said:

Put your money where your mouth is

Burnes DOES NOT have greater than or even equal trade value to Giolito as we stand today, 1/19/21, as your post stated. He simply does not.

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

This is so dumb

Since when was LaStella such a favorite acquisition target before last fall? 

 

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Random retweet by Not Cishek ?

 

oh my god it’s happening 

Just now, bmags said:

I think what people think of as stuff will vary. Giolito gets a lot of help out of his height and delivery. Hitters talk about how his change isn’t Johan Santana’s they just can never pick it up vs his fastball.

Burnes has the pitches I think of more in terms of stuff, but it’s also a lot of break instead of drop which usually isn’t my fav. But it looks fun.

It seems like Burnes has more pitches and mixes things up well, and can often spot that cutter.  The FB can be overpowering and he can also go to breaking stuff.  it does look nice.

When I look at Gio though, I know there are things that the hitter sees that I can't see.  Lucas can get away with things other pitchers (like bad high changeups) just never get away with.  He clearly is surprising them, a lot.  He really gets those guys off balance and he loves to pitch up.  I just love watching him work guys over, and right now he's got 3 pitches.  Katz will have him using the CB again and he'll be up, down, in and out.  I think the best is yet to come from him.  And I think in Lucas' case the "tv image" of the stuff doesn't do justice to what the hitters see with him.

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

FWIW, Lucas Giolito has the highest Zips projection amongst all starters next year, so saying someone is better than him based on 12 awesome starts is being pretty ambitious.

Unfortunately, most soxtalkers still undervalue Giolito. It’s mind boggling.

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Since when was LaStella such a favorite acquisition target before last fall? 

 

Oh like when he became a free agent?

1 minute ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

oh my god it’s happening 

The chances are slim and none. 

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Oh like when he became a free agent?

I meant over the last 2-3 seasons...at any rate, they're not trading Madrigal (along with some lingering injury concerns) at a discount and with his base running and fielding not grading as projected in 2020. 

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by caulfield12

If my Twitter timeline all fucked or is Al’s Beef retweeted a bunch of Burnes videos now?

4 minutes ago, Flash said:

You pick the relevant metrics to compare Burnes and Gio in 2021. 

IP, ERA, BB/9, K/9, H/9, WHIP, official ranking in Cy Young voting

I want to see 200+IP out of an ace.  And in honesty, it's not fair to expect that out of Burnes, so I don't think 2021 is really the year.  

Maybe in peripherals Burnes can be a bit better in 150IP than Gio in 200+ but that's not a better pitcher.

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Bet what?

Better make sure you use some advanced stats to determine what exactly would make who better than the other one since they are in different leagues if you make a bet, just in case the DH in the NL does not come to pass this year.

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Burnes DOES NOT have greater than or even equal trade value to Giolito as we stand today, 1/19/21, as your post stated. He simply does not.

Like I said, I don't have respective contract info to compare so allow me to revise my statement. If a game needs to be won, I'll take Burnes and you can have Gio. I know thats not very scientific but Burnes is the better pitcher. Only time will tell but you come up with the metrics for '21 and I'll put my money where my mouth is. 

Now Portillo’s just liked this tweet:

 

Feels like something about to pop...

7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Unfortunately, most soxtalkers still undervalue Giolito. It’s mind boggling.

I'm still going to like Giolito even if he gets paid elsewhere in 3 years. He seems like a good dude and he deserves to choose his path toward getting paid. I'll be disappointed if he leaves, but I will never hold it against a Sox FA for getting paid elsewhere. Especially pitchers. That's an ownership issue. My favorites I will continue to root for their success against everyone other than the Sox if they have to get paid elsewhere. 

I still enjoy Chris Sale's starts when healthy, even after getting traded and the jersey incident. 

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by Jack Parkman

32 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This is a ridiculous take

Flash is not crazy. Burnes has tip, top potential for a starter. In a 100 simulations, there are a few where he has a Max Scherzer like career-arc.

That said, Burnes has not accomplished anything to be valued equally to Giolito but Burnes is cheaper and has more control so he they may actually be on the same level with value. Burnes' upside is tremendous.

1 minute ago, Flash said:

Like I said, I don't have respective contract info to compare so allow me to revise my statement. If a game needs to be won, I'll take Burnes and you can have Gio. I know thats not very scientific but Burnes is the better pitcher. Only time will tell but you come up with the metrics for '21 and I'll put my money where my mouth is. 

Nope. You said a trade package to acquire Burnes STARTS with a Giolito type return. You’re nuts

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Random retweet by Not Cishek ?

 

This seems a perfect way to say nothing, but if something does happen, pretend you knew all along.

I was once again going to tell everyone to stop getting so excited...this is a pipe dream...and then raBBit had to come comment on the thread. 

2 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Flash is not crazy. Burnes has tip, top potential for a starter. In a 100 simulations, there are a few where he has a Max Scherzer like career-arc.

That said, Burnes has not accomplished anything to be valued equally to Giolito but Burnes is cheaper and has more control so he they may actually be on the same level with value. Burnes' upside is tremendous.

“Way more control”? He has one extra year of control. He’s the same age as Giolito. What again has he done to warrant a trade package that STARTS with a Giolito type return? Nah, Flash is crazy. And if he’s right, I want no part of a Burnes trade.

It's WAY too premature to call Burnes a better pitcher than Giolito. However, despite his small sample size, his is stuff is quite elite.

 

 

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by CWSpalehoseCWS

4 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Flash is not crazy. Burnes has tip, top potential for a starter. In a 100 simulations, there are a few where he has a Max Scherzer like career-arc.

That said, Burnes has not accomplished anything to be valued equally to Giolito but Burnes is cheaper and has more control so he they may actually be on the same level with value. Burnes' upside is tremendous.

You hearing anything on a potential deal raBBit?

5 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

This seems a perfect way to say nothing, but if something does happen, pretend you knew all along.

Could be, but they’re all throwing lines in the water for whatever that is worth.

Don’t know if this was posted