May 30, 20214 yr Lol at the posters who said he would be a sub 700 OPS ceiling player unable to accept the fact that he can improve with more experience. Now that hes well over 700 OPS and has made great contributions with his contact thanks to adjustments. Those same posters are now calling his current defense his ceiling. These posters will ignore the fact that Anderson has gone from worst defender in the league to above average. They also forget how Moncada has improved on his defense over time. Madrigal is not capable of that though according to them. I wonder what they will cling on to next when he becomes an above average defender?
May 30, 20214 yr 29 minutes ago, reiks12 said: Lol at the posters who said he would be a sub 700 OPS ceiling player unable to accept the fact that he can improve with more experience. Now that hes well over 700 OPS and has made great contributions with his contact thanks to adjustments. Those same posters are now calling his current defense his ceiling. These posters will ignore the fact that Anderson has gone from worst defender in the league to above average. They also forget how Moncada has improved on his defense over time. Madrigal is not capable of that though according to them. I wonder what they will cling on to next when he becomes an above average defender? I agree with you. Look how much better Madrigal is at 2nd base compared to what a butcher Moncada was at 2nd. Nick doesn't make the acrobatic play that gets the attention but is actually pretty solid IMO. Made a nice over the should catch out in short right just yesterday.
May 30, 20214 yr Madrigal has been a lot better in the areas which have cost the team. The contact has been an asset. So far he's looking like a 5-year player, maybe 6. I'd still trade him in the right deal but that's just me. I would really love to bring Semien back as a FA on about a 4 year deal if that is possible. His season however is probably pricing him out of the Sox range.
May 30, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, reiks12 said: Lol at the posters who said he would be a sub 700 OPS ceiling player unable to accept the fact that he can improve with more experience. Now that hes well over 700 OPS and has made great contributions with his contact thanks to adjustments. Those same posters are now calling his current defense his ceiling. These posters will ignore the fact that Anderson has gone from worst defender in the league to above average. They also forget how Moncada has improved on his defense over time. Madrigal is not capable of that though according to them. I wonder what they will cling on to next when he becomes an above average defender? Comparing Anderson's tools to Madrigal's tools is absolutely ridiculous. If Madrigal becomes an average defender it will be solely based on situational awareness, good hands, etc. It will not be due to speed, range, or arm strength.
May 30, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, reiks12 said: Lol at the posters who said he would be a sub 700 OPS ceiling player unable to accept the fact that he can improve with more experience. Now that hes well over 700 OPS and has made great contributions with his contact thanks to adjustments. Those same posters are now calling his current defense his ceiling. These posters will ignore the fact that Anderson has gone from worst defender in the league to above average. They also forget how Moncada has improved on his defense over time. Madrigal is not capable of that though according to them. I wonder what they will cling on to next when he becomes an above average defender? Nevermind Edited May 30, 20214 yr by Blackout Friday I’m an idiot
May 30, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Madrigal is .738 Yeah it’s my bad, for some reason thought he was talking about mendick. I’ll correct and shame myself accordingly.
May 30, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, YourWhatHurts said: Comparing Anderson's tools to Madrigal's tools is absolutely ridiculous. If Madrigal becomes an average defender it will be solely based on situational awareness, good hands, etc. It will not be due to speed, range, or arm strength. You misunderstood me completely. All i said was people can get better with experience and i used two sox players to show that. I have no idea where you got the idea that i was saying madrigal would become as athletic as anderson.
May 30, 20214 yr 57 minutes ago, reiks12 said: You misunderstood me completely. All i said was people can get better with experience and i used two sox players to show that. I have no idea where you got the idea that i was saying madrigal would become as athletic as anderson. I see what you are saying but I just don't like the comp due to the tools difference. I mean if you are just saying he could improve fundamentally then I agree, so could anyone. TA did, Moncada did, also so did Leury and Yolmer Sanchez. I think Yolmer is probably a better comp actually. Madrigal is a better player but Yolmer still has him on defense. It's just a totally different set of circumstances comparing the players though. People are much more patient and understanding with the toolshed type of prospect/young MLBer than the overachiever type. Anderson's issue was mental/inexperience/impatience/lack of baseball experience but the tools were there that gave him a ceiling of a well-above average defensive player if everything came together. OTOH Madrigal has the tools of an average player who has to hit on everything fundamentally to just be average on defense. TA as a lesser version of himself is still playable if not at SS then 2B or elsewhere because of the tools and the bat. Madrigal as a poor fundamental player is unplayable, anywhere, except maybe as an extra 2B on a bench but usually teams want a guy there who is more versatile. Which is why it is a totally different set of circumstances.
June 5, 20214 yr 50 games into the season Madrigal's oWAR is at 1.5, so he should be around 4.5 oWAR to end the season if he continues. Thats pretty amazing for his first full season in the majors. His dWAR is at -.4, but im hopeful that will keep improving. Fangraphs has him a .9 WAR overall right now, on pace for 3 WAR.
June 5, 20214 yr 40 minutes ago, reiks12 said: 50 games into the season Madrigal's oWAR is at 1.5, so he should be around 4.5 oWAR to end the season if he continues. Thats pretty amazing for his first full season in the majors. His dWAR is at -.4, but im hopeful that will keep improving. Fangraphs has him a .9 WAR overall right now, on pace for 3 WAR. He’s getting the job done offensively. His ISO of .118 isn’t that much worse than the bulk of our hitters and I still think there is some room for improvement there. Defensively he’s gotten way better since his early season struggles, but he’s still making a bit too many mistakes. I’m optimistic his defense gets much better with time. He’s a nice little player who compliments the rest of the lineup perfectly.
June 5, 20214 yr 17th out of 38 MLB second basemen with 120+ plate appearances in terms of fWAR. So above average, by definition. If we change it to 100+ PA at second, 17/47, or roughly top third in MLB for his position. Semien, Altuve, Merrifield, Polanco, Solak, Lowe in AL lead him. Wong, now, injured, 7th. Pretty decent company to be right there with those last 3-4 names as a rookie. Edited June 5, 20214 yr by caulfield12
June 5, 20214 yr 6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: He’s getting the job done offensively. His ISO of .118 isn’t that much worse than the bulk of our hitters and I still think there is some room for improvement there. Defensively he’s gotten way better since his early season struggles, but he’s still making a bit too many mistakes. I’m optimistic his defense gets much better with time. He’s a nice little player who compliments the rest of the lineup perfectly. If Semien can turn into a near GG with Oakland at SS I have faith in Nick.
June 7, 20214 yr 21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Can we get a Jered Kelenic vs Madrigal update? Thanks in advance! Kelenic 2 HR Madrigal 2 HR That's all there is to it, folks.
June 7, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, OmarComing25 said: Madrigal now on pace for ~4 fWAR. IM SHOCKED! kidding. He is a 3 WAR floor player.
June 7, 20214 yr When MLB level baseball becomes comfortable to he and Vaughn this team will be absolutely devastating offensively.
June 7, 20214 yr He's getting it done. Kudos to him. Hope he proves all his doubters wrong, including myself. His defense has improved to tolerable as well and tolerable defense with a 110 wRC+ or therabouts from 2B is a solid starter. Really looks like the Sox nailed their rebuild draft picks.
June 7, 20214 yr On 5/30/2021 at 11:42 AM, reiks12 said: Lol at the posters who said he would be a sub 700 OPS ceiling player unable to accept the fact that he can improve with more experience. Now that hes well over 700 OPS and has made great contributions with his contact thanks to adjustments. Those same posters are now calling his current defense his ceiling. These posters will ignore the fact that Anderson has gone from worst defender in the league to above average. They also forget how Moncada has improved on his defense over time. Madrigal is not capable of that though according to them. I wonder what they will cling on to next when he becomes an above average defender? Bad baseball face/low back pockets
June 7, 20214 yr He's a clever little guy. He's got basically a half a MLB season now under his belt, and he has already done some things the naysayers said will never happen. He is starting to hit the ball a bit harder and sooner, and pulling it a little more. His defense hasn't been the GG quality that was advertised, but give it some time. He is a nice change of pace in the line up. He has a higher slugging percentage than Soxtalk favorite target Joey Gallo. Edited June 7, 20214 yr by Dick Allen
June 7, 20214 yr 32 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said: Kelenic 2 HR Madrigal 2 HR That's all there is to it, folks. Kelenic on pace for a beautiful -5.6 fWAR per 162 Madrigal on pace for a wonderful 4.35 fWAR per 162. Madrigal is a Mike Trout better than Jered Kelenic!
June 7, 20214 yr Is it just me or does it feel like he "hasn't" really gotten it going? Finally in the positive with regards to base running and defense
June 7, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, beautox said: Is it just me or does it feel like he "hasn't" really gotten it going? Finally in the positive with regards to base running and defense The biggest and best adjustment Madrigal has made is he stopped worrying about striking out an absurdly small amount by trying to make any contact at all on tough pitches. He's started to attack pitches he can do some damage against more often which has led to a slight uptick in K's but it's not like he'll ever strike out a lot.
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