Thread already talking about him wasn't good enough for this?

2 hours ago, Tony said:

100% don't trust or believe it. 

Happy to see the results thus far, just don't buy it at all. 

Prove me wrong, ReyLo. 

I've forwarded your doubts to his email and included mine.  Should be a great motivator.

6 hours ago, Tony said:

100% don't trust or believe it. 

Happy to see the results thus far, just don't buy it at all. 

Prove me wrong, ReyLo. 

We can add him to th elist of these really really needed surprises at the right time that 2021 has given us.

The one thing with lopez that I always struggle with is for all the reputation of his stuff, aside from velo his pitches grade really poorly for movement in in baseballsavant. Though this year, the improvement is basically that his stuff went from largely below average in movement to pretty much very slightly below average.

I think because he's a short RH that throws hard it just tends to look more dramatic. So it's possible he has just become a much smarter pitcher, but it is weird because I don't often come across pitch profiles like his.

Just now, bmags said:

We can add him to th elist of these really really needed surprises at the right time that 2021 has given us.

The one thing with lopez that I always struggle with is for all the reputation of his stuff, aside from velo his pitches grade really poorly for movement in in baseballsavant. Though this year, the improvement is basically that his stuff went from largely below average in movement to pretty much very slightly below average.

I think because he's a short RH that throws hard it just tends to look more dramatic. So it's possible he has just become a much smarter pitcher, but it is weird because I don't often come across pitch profiles like his.

Yeah so I guess the big deal may just be with his curveball now being average he's got like 3 "50" pitches with his fastball velo probably giving him a plus pitch...so it's something that could work.

I got mocked here a lot back in the off season, in the Joe Musgrove thread, when I suggested we under rate our own potential guys and fall in love with some other teams potential guys.  I argued that while JM had intriguing potential there were warning signs and he was going to cost a lot of assets while Reylo had upside and cost nothing....hahahahahahaha you are stupid...Reylo is trash and JM is amazing, I was told.  I'm not sure I believe in the new Reylo...but I also never believed in the loud "HE IS GARBAGE" stuff.  In 2018, at 24, Reylo pitched 180+ innings and had a 3.5 WAR.  That guy is in there somewhere...yet at 26 he was worth nothing??  Chris Bassitt who we were all lamenting was another one that got away...has been one of the best pitchers in baseball the last three years...was nothing until he turned 30.   I made the same argument with Rodon at the start of the season...that there were comparable pitchers that had history of arm problems and then in their late twenties were past it and had very good careers (I used Mike Minor who starting at 29 put up 14 WAR in three years after missing two and a half years with arm problems). At some point we have to be patient when a guy doesn't perform as opposed to falling all over ourselves to see who can shout the loudest "HE SUCKS".  And in an unrelated note maybe we can ratchet back the 10,000 posts per gamethread that shout "Collins sucks"...maybe as a fan base we can start cheering for our guys and rooting against the other teams guys?

   

1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I got mocked here a lot back in the off season, in the Joe Musgrove thread, when I suggested we under rate our own potential guys and fall in love with some other teams potential guys.  I argued that while JM had intriguing potential there were warning signs and he was going to cost a lot of assets while Reylo had upside and cost nothing....hahahahahahaha you are stupid...Reylo is trash and JM is amazing, I was told.  I'm not sure I believe in the new Reylo...but I also never believed in the loud "HE IS GARBAGE" stuff.  In 2018, at 24, Reylo pitched 180+ innings and had a 3.5 WAR.  That guy is in there somewhere...yet at 26 he was worth nothing??  Chris Bassitt who we were all lamenting was another one that got away...has been one of the best pitchers in baseball the last three years...was nothing until he turned 30.   I made the same argument with Rodon at the start of the season...that there were comparable pitchers that had history of arm problems and then in their late twenties were past it and had very good careers (I used Mike Minor who starting at 29 put up 14 WAR in three years after missing two and a half years with arm problems). At some point we have to be patient when a guy doesn't perform as opposed to falling all over ourselves to see who can shout the loudest "HE SUCKS".  And in an unrelated note maybe we can ratchet back the 10,000 posts per gamethread that shout "Collins sucks"...maybe as a fan base we can start cheering for our guys and rooting against the other teams guys?

   

It’s not “not rooting” for our guys. We want them to succeed but also realize and can admit when guys suck (like Collins both offensively and defensively).

Just now, manbearpuig said:

It’s not “not rooting” for our guys. We want them to succeed but also realize and can admit when guys suck (like Collins both offensively and defensively).

Collins has been terrible this past 6 weeks.   Reylo was the worst pitcher in baseball last year.  Gio was the worst pitcher in baseball in 2018.  Rodon was a wasted top four draft pick.  All have extraordinary potential.  I am happy to admit that Collins has lost his confidence and has been terrible the last six weeks...but again...as recently as July 1st he had a .733 OPS, had caught a no hitter and was the preferred catcher for two of our best pitchers...and a lefty back up catcher.  We will all cheer when we cut Collins loose this off season, as we did when Avasail left, and in a quiet move Tampa or Oakland or Milwaukee picks him up.  Until then I will just get used to the deep thoughtful analysis, 10,000 times a game, of COLLINS SUCKS....just like I got used to the REYLO SUCKS chants.         

Collins only got 1/2 year at Charlotte in 2019 and then was at the alternate site most of 2020. I think he needs a full year of being a primary catcher at AAA to develop. . I think Zavala's ceiling is backup catcher so maybe live with him in 2022 or sign a guy for 1 year.

Back when REYLO was in the rotation I repeatedly said I hated his slow pace and was scared to throw the ball approach.  His problems were mostly mental IMO.  His pace and look of confidence have totally been turned around.  I credit Katz with getting into his head some positive thoughts...the arm has always been there.

7 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I've forwarded your doubts to his email and included mine.  Should be a great motivator.

I got a bounce back. What address did you use? 
 

?

He appears to be a 2 pitch pitcher right now. Fastball-slider almost exclusively. We'll see if he can keep it up like that. 

4 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Collins only got 1/2 year at Charlotte in 2019 and then was at the alternate site most of 2020. I think he needs a full year of being a primary catcher at AAA to develop. . I think Zavala's ceiling is backup catcher so maybe live with him in 2022 or sign a guy for 1 year.

I think their handling of Collins has been weird.  Grandal got hurt on July 5th and the White Sox have played 36 games since then and Collins has started 16 of them.   It seems clear that management doesn't think he can do it.  I wish they had given him 25 starts in a row to prove it...like they did with Narvaez in 2018.  They put guys like Engel in only super advantageous hitting matchups and yet Collins is always facing tough lefties because of the pitchers he catches for.   Not everyone pans out...and at one point it seemed like they had a clever long term plan for Collins...now I just think they hate him.  but not as much as Soxtalk HATES him (but again...like they hated Reylo until reylo started pitching well...we get 10,000 HE SUCKS and then when he turns it around three or four...well I guess I was wrong).  

   

1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think their handling of Collins has been weird.  Grandal got hurt on July 5th and the White Sox have played 36 games since then and Collins has started 16 of them.   It seems clear that management doesn't think he can do it.  I wish they had given him 25 starts in a row to prove it...like they did with Narvaez in 2018.  They put guys like Engel in only super advantageous hitting matchups and yet Collins is always facing tough lefties because of the pitchers he catches for.   Not everyone pans out...and at one point it seemed like they had a clever long term plan for Collins...now I just think they hate him.  but not as much as Soxtalk HATES him (but again...like they hated Reylo until reylo started pitching well...we get 10,000 HE SUCKS and then when he turns it around three or four...well I guess I was wrong).  

   

They have him plenty of starts. Anybody with working eyes could see how awful he was at framing. He coat pitchers plenty of strikes. The pitchers probably hate throwing to him. 

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

They have him plenty of starts. Anybody with working eyes could see how awful he was at framing. He coat pitchers plenty of strikes. The pitchers probably hate throwing to him. 

How do you get in a rhythm when he catches every third day?   Catching is hard to learn...he's changed his catching style this year to kneeling...has a new catching coach...and he's only 26.  When I looked at it back in mid June Collins ERA while catching was lower than Grandals...again not entirely his doing as he was Rodon and Gio's personal catcher...but he must call a pretty good game or they wouldn't want him as their personal catcher...Gio called him a "student of the game".  Meanwhile framing is the dumbest metric...he's really bad at keeping the umpires from being really bad? So when we go to robot umps suddenly Collins is a lefty power hitter with lots of walks and calls a good game and we let him get away?  Like Reylo...let them develop.  

 

33 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think their handling of Collins has been weird.  Grandal got hurt on July 5th and the White Sox have played 36 games since then and Collins has started 16 of them.   It seems clear that management doesn't think he can do it.  I wish they had given him 25 starts in a row to prove it...like they did with Narvaez in 2018.  They put guys like Engel in only super advantageous hitting matchups and yet Collins is always facing tough lefties because of the pitchers he catches for.   Not everyone pans out...and at one point it seemed like they had a clever long term plan for Collins...now I just think they hate him.  but not as much as Soxtalk HATES him (but again...like they hated Reylo until reylo started pitching well...we get 10,000 HE SUCKS and then when he turns it around three or four...well I guess I was wrong).  

   

He played a lot more early on.  His performance slowly moved him out of the job.  He played 16 games from Jul 5-30.  During that time he hit .133/.350/.267/.617.  As time went out Zavala took over the job.

Joe Musgrove:

23 GS 123 IP 10ks/9 3.11 ERA on pace for 4 WAR and a no hitter

Reynaldo Lopez has thrown 25 innings mostly out of the bullpen. They are the same.

 

Fegans article today had some gems...

double cornea eye surgery. What? Apparently his vision was blurry enough that he was double guessing which pitch was being called by catcher and that shattered his confidence.

Also...the new web in the face gather is to hide his emotions...so it seems confidence is back in a big way. Great read by Fegan as always.

For Lopez to get his due on Soxtalk, the foodies would have had to have been correct and he was traded. Then he would be a perennial Cy Young guy that every poster knew was there but Sox coaching clearly fucked him up. Since he is still with the White Sox, he is an "I'm not buying it even if he wins the next 5 Cy Youngs". 

An article I read said his issues earlier were due to the adjustments he was asked to make, and it has finally clicked in. Who knows if it will last, he has had some good months before, but I am going to enjoy this version as long as it lasts. 

It will be interesting to see how Lopez handles a bit of adversity - a bad start, etc. will he rebound or will it crater the rest of his season?

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

He appears to be a 2 pitch pitcher right now. Fastball-slider almost exclusively. We'll see if he can keep it up like that. 

He throws his fastball or slider 95% of the time. Usually that doesn't work real well as a starter long term but that'll be fine as a relief pitcher. 

2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

He throws his fastball or slider 95% of the time. Usually that doesn't work real well as a starter long term but that'll be fine as a relief pitcher. 

Fegan had a katz snippet on this:

Katz believes his arsenal will expand as needed and the changeup and curveball will make more appearances the longer his outings run.

Edited August 18, 20214 yr by EloyJenkins

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Joe Musgrove:

23 GS 123 IP 10ks/9 3.11 ERA on pace for 4 WAR and a no hitter

Reynaldo Lopez has thrown 25 innings mostly out of the bullpen. They are the same.

 

Since the first two games in early April Musgrove is 6-8 with a 3.50+ ERA for a great team...and he would have cost, as someone suggested Kelley, Beard and Rodriguez.   I know you are going to FIP and FWAR me to death but...8-8 total for an elite team with a 3.11 ERA in the National League...at some point you FIPsters are going to have to acknowledge that the stats don't work for some guys...Musgrove had elite FIP for Pittsburgh and yet never won...now he's over at the Padres...that team that most Soxtalkers wish we had...and he's OK...solidly OK.   If we sign him we don't bring back Rodon who has been elite...and Rodriquez is our top prospect today...and Reylo sure is interesting...for free.     

2 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Since the first two games in early April Musgrove is 6-8 with a 3.50+ ERA for a great team...and he would have cost, as someone suggested Kelley, Beard and Rodriguez.   I know you are going to FIP and FWAR me to death but...8-8 total for an elite team with a 3.11 ERA in the National League...at some point you FIPsters are going to have to acknowledge that the stats don't work for some guys...Musgrove had elite FIP for Pittsburgh and yet never won...now he's over at the Padres...that team that most Soxtalkers wish we had...and he's OK...solidly OK.   If we sign him we don't bring back Rodon who has been elite...and Rodriquez is our top prospect today...and Reylo sure is interesting...for free.     

If you take away all his games he has a 0.00 ERA

You'd think we were back in the cornfields of Iowa with all the strawmen in this thread