3 minutes ago, wegner said:

Is it time to debate the merits of accepting Kimbrel's option and putting the more valuable piece, Hendriks, on the market?

Who is giving up a lot for Hendriks? Is Hendriks more valuable after this season than he was after 2020? With the home run balls he threw, probably not. So who would take on his contract and give you something back?

We know his free agent value, because we were the top bidder for him. Teams will only pay more than that if they think they are getting something even better.  He’s probably movable - for basically no return.

 

Please TLR, resign this week! Go enjoy your retirement. Let someone else younger and more qualified handle this young talent that needs stronger fundamentals and discipline.

If JR could actually be honest with himself, which we know he is too arrogant and senile to do, he would realize making you the manager was a colossal mistake. We went backwards from 2020 instead of forward. 

40 minutes ago, ron883 said:

If Abreu hits into less GIDPs, this team is in a great spot. 

The perfect DP candidate.  Tries to pull outside pitches, hits grounders to SS and can't run.  And the tragedy is that he can go oppo when he's in the right mood.

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by Stinky Stanky

14 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's pointless aruging with you. Time and time again you've shown once you take a position, you'll die on that hill, no matter how bad you look doing it. 

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth and disgreading anything anyone says because of ONE STAT, yet claiming Jimmy is too hung up on his one stat. 

Believe what you want. The fact of the matter is the Sox hit the ball on the ground too much this season, and that exact same issue showed up in the playoffs. The full, healthy lineup slugged .376 in the playoffs against a decent Astros pitching staff. 

But keep jerking yourself off to offensive numbers put up against the Royals and Tigers pitching staffs...

glad to hear you would rather have a worse offensive production but hit more fly balls. Thanks for checking in.

 

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Who is giving up a lot for Hendriks? Is Hendriks more valuable after this season than he was after 2020? With the home run balls he threw, probably not. So who would take on his contract and give you something back?

We know his free agent value, because we were the top bidder for him. Teams will only pay more than that if they think they are getting something even better.  He’s probably movable - for basically no return.

 

All I am saying is if there is a market for Kimbrel, why the hell wouldn't there be a market for Hendriks who at this time is much better.

To be clear, I am not suggesting they should do it...just wondering if that is an option the front office would consider.

3 minutes ago, wegner said:

All I am saying is if there is a market for Kimbrel, why the hell wouldn't there be a market for Hendriks who at this time is much better.

To be clear, I am not suggesting they should do it...just wondering if that is an option the front office would consider.

Well I don’t think there will be a market for Kimbrel without the White Sox chipping in money so…?

50 minutes ago, ron883 said:

If Abreu hits into less GIDPs, this team is in a great spot. 

He led the league. Way too many GIDP's for a clean 4 hitter. 

4 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I agree with Tony here. The Sox beat up on garbage ass teams most of the year. They simply did not get it done against quality opponents. I'd imagine the offensive numbers are inflated due to the horrible AL Central.

In 2021 (regular season):

OPS against Baltimore: .927

OPS against Cubs: .928

OPS against Twins: .866

OPS against Tigers: .812

OPS against Boston: .743

OPS against Indians: .689

OPS against Royals: .660 (I was wrong about that one)

OPS against Astros: .659

OPS against Tampa: .648

But the point sort of remains....

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

glad to hear you would rather have a worse offensive production but hit more fly balls. Thanks for checking in.

 

Again, worthless having a conversation with you. Never said anything of the sort, but instead of acknowledging other points, you decided to be....you. 

I would really like for Lynn to rededicate himself to his craft and spend the off season getting into his best shape.  The knee injury is certainly related to weight and his fading in second halves are related to conditioning.  It's something entirely controllable and will pay dividends for the team and himself.

Is it just old head thinking that I would like the Sox to be much more active on the bases next year?  They have high end speed at several positions and I do think it impacted on 1st to 3rd and 2nd to home situations this year.  I'd like to see them put pressure on the pitcher with their speed, not just fielders.  I think we saw what smart, situational running can do during this series.

7 minutes ago, wegner said:

All I am saying is if there is a market for Kimbrel, why the hell wouldn't there be a market for Hendriks who at this time is much better.

To be clear, I am not suggesting they should do it...just wondering if that is an option the front office would consider.

It would be insane to trade Hendricks. Kimbrel had a fluke first half this season for the Cubs. With no Hendricks we are back to square one with no closer. For those on here thinking Kimbrel was or is so good, you obviously didn't see his stats from 2019 & 2020 and additionally must not have any die hard Cub friends either. If you did, you would know how they felt about Kimbrel. 

 

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

In 2021 (regular season):

OPS against Baltimore: .927

OPS against Cubs: .928

OPS against Twins: .866

OPS against Tigers: .812

OPS against Boston: .743

OPS against Indians: .689

OPS against Royals: .660 (I was wrong about that one)

OPS against Astros: .659

OPS against Tampa: .648

But the point sort of remains....

Thanks for looking it up. They definitely struggled against the better teams. 

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

In 2021 (regular season):

OPS against Baltimore: .927

OPS against Cubs: .928

OPS against Twins: .866

OPS against Tigers: .812

OPS against Boston: .743 

OPS against Indians: .689

OPS against Royals: .660 (I was wrong about that one)

OPS against Astros: .659

OPS against Tampa: .648

But the point sort of remains....

lol

Yankees - 759
Oakland - 737
Seattle - 749
Toronto - 736
Cinci - 774
 

You literally cherry picked the two winning teams they struggled most against.

News flash, EVERY good offense hits better against worse pitching. The Sox were fine against more than half the winning teams they played.

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Thanks for looking it up. They definitely struggled against the better teams. 

Houston OPS against Tampa: 629
Against Yankees: 662
Against White Sox (regular season): 684
 

A lot of dishonest statistical analysis happening in this thread.

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well I don’t think there will be a market for Kimbrel without the White Sox chipping in money so…?

You only sign Kimbrel with the intention of keeping him, at least through July. A sign and flip is an idiotic plan. His market isn't over $15M AAV ($16M option less sunk cost buyout), it just isn't.

Unless the Sox are seeking massive payroll increases, Kimbrel is not a good use of 2022 payroll. 2021 was pro-rated.

Hahn will have to deal with the fallout (internal and external) of overpaying trade capital for the 2022 option that ends up going to waste.

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by South Side Hit Men

7 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

He led the league. Way too many GIDP's for a clean 4 hitter. 

I have a fear that we saw the beginnings of the natural age related decline of Abreu this year.

4 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

I would really like for Lynn to rededicate himself to his craft and spend the off season getting into his best shape.  The knee injury is certainly related to weight and his fading in second halves are related to conditioning.  It's something entirely controllable and will pay dividends for the team and himself.

Is it just old head thinking that I would like the Sox to be much more active on the bases next year?  They have high end speed at several positions and I do think it impacted on 1st to 3rd and 2nd to home situations this year.  I'd like to see them put pressure on the pitcher with their speed, not just fielders.  I think we saw what smart, situational running can do during this series.

Good point on Lynn. For that matter I think the entire team need to dedicate themselves to better off season conditioning. They all need to work on their fundamentals and definitely their flexibility so we don't have as many hamstring and groin pulls in 2022. 

 

8 minutes ago, Tony said:

Again, worthless having a conversation with you. Never said anything of the sort, but instead of acknowledging other points, you decided to be....you. 

You implied that Jimmy was correct saying hitting more ground balls but having the 3rd ranked offense in baseball was WORSE than being one of the actual worst defensive teams in basebal. It's pure nonsense guy.

Then you posted misleading statistics against two pitching staffs to sell your point. Yankees and Boston had better staffs than Houston and Tampa and the Sox hit them just fine. Cinci pitching staff was damn near identical to Houstons and the Sox hit them fine.

Any other misleading points you want to make?

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

lol

Yankees - 759
Oakland - 737
Seattle - 749
Toronto - 736
Cinci - 774
 

You literally cherry picked the two winning teams they struggled most against.

News flash, EVERY good offense hits better against worse pitching. The Sox were fine against more than half the winning teams they played.

You're simply worng. 

3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You only sign Kimbrel with the intention of keeping him, at least through July. A sign and flip is an idiotic plan. His market isn't over $15M AAV ($16M option less sunk cost buyout), it just isn't.

Unless the Sox are seeking massive payroll increases, Kimbrel is not a good use of 2022 payroll. 2021 was pro-rated.

Hahn will have to deal with the fallout (internal and external) of overpaying for the 2022 option that ends up going to waste.

Something will have gone very wrong with the season if the Sox are trading him at the deadline.

If he is here, he is here for the long haul.

1 minute ago, Superstar Lamar said:

I have a fear that we saw the beginnings of the natural age related decline of Abreu this year.

Sadly you may be right, but I pray we are wrong. Unfortunately he will be 35 next year. We forget he had a long Cuban baseball career before coming to the Sox as a 27 year old rookie. I am hoping he is dedicated to working out harder than ever in the off season. Hell, look at what Nelson Cruz is doing at 41. 

These anti Abreu posts are bizarre. A 3 WAR 1bman is the least of our problems. It's not a problem at all, in fact.

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

You're simply worng. 

How can OPS be wrong? Isn't it the same stat you just used to claim they struggle offensively against good teams?

Did you ever think maybe the pitching and defense struggled against good teams?

I guess my OPS stats vs those teams were wrong but yours (against two teams) were right. Riveting stuff.

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

White Sox ERA:

vs Yankees - 4.99
vs Seattle - 5.12
vs Houston - 4.7
vs Tampa - 5.07
vs Boston - 4.81
vs Mil - 4.32
 

Total for the year - 3.73

It was the OFFENSES fault they didn't hit more flyballs and that's why they didn't beat Good teams! It wasn't the defense and pitching staff that struggled.

Any other questions, @Tony

The offense on the other hand had better OPS than their year-long average against more than half the playoff teams they played in the regular season and more than 65% of the winning teams they played.

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How can OPS be wrong? Isn't it the same stat you just used to claim they struggle offensively against good teams?

Did you ever think maybe the pitching and defense struggled against good teams?

I guess my OPS stats vs those teams were wrong but yours (against two teams) were right. Riveting stuff.

You've proven you're not smart enough to comprehend the argument. It's ok.