1 hour ago, Pal said:

Lordes Gurriel could be had for at least a season now. Toronto would jump all over him for Vaughn.

What you hearing Pal?

42 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Hahn meant it when he said they'd have a seat at the table, damnit. Whether that ever leads to them actually signing a ~100M caliber player (or in Scherzer's case, potentially record setting AAV), well....

They’ve set the AAV record under Reinsdorf before.  I don’t think 3/$120M is necessarily a problem unless Jerry just doesn’t like throwing big dollars at an aging pitcher.  To be clear, I’m not saying it’s likely, just not impossible.

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by Chicago White Sox

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What you hearing Pal?

Why would we want to give up all those seasons of Vaughn for just two of Gurriel, when he just managed to put up a 1.5 fWAR season with 21 homers and 62 RBI's?

That would be pretty close to the absolute floor for what we would expect with Vaughn getting regular playing time next year.   And it's not like he's a particularly strong defender, either.

Doesn't make much sense for the White Sox.

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by caulfield12

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They’ve set the AAV record under Reinsdorf before.  I don’t think 3/$120M is necessarily a problem unless Jerry just doesn’t like throwing big dollars at an aging pitcher.  To be clear, I’m not saying it’s likely, just not impossible.

I'm aware of that. Citing Albert Belle's deal from ~26 years ago doesn't feel particularly relevant anymore, but it's fair to bring up. I've been clinging (in my mind) to the fact they had the 4th highest payroll in '06. There is some precedent for Jerry opening the wallet even if he haven't seen it in 15 years.

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would we want to give up all those seasons of Vaughn for just two of Gurriel, when he just managed to put up a 1.5 fWAR season with 21 homers and 62 RBI's?

That would be pretty close to the absolute floor for what we would expect with Vaughn getting regular playing time next year.   And it's not like he's a particularly strong defender, either.

Doesn't make much sense for the White Sox.

Vaughn involved in a deal for Gurriel (I'm assuming the Sox would be getting another piece as well) would be an all-time bad trade. Oh my goodness.

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would we want to give up all those seasons of Vaughn for just two of Gurriel, when he just managed to put up a 1.5 fWAR season with 21 homers and 62 RBI's?

That would be pretty close to the absolute floor for what we would expect with Vaughn getting regular playing time next year.   And it's not like he's a particularly strong defender, either.

Doesn't make much sense for the White Sox.

They wouldn’t.  I was just curious what kind of moves Pal has heard we might make.

Bryan Reynolds would be fantastic but would probably require more than what Hahn is realistically willing to give up. 

OFers within reason I think: Winker and Meadows 

But they should just sign Marte, Castellanos, or I guess Conforto. I’d rather they go the trade route for a 2B (Ketel Marte would be PERFECT, Cronenworth, Jeff McNeil, Brandon Lowe, Whit Merrifield or if not a 2B then trade for a SP1 (Castillo) 

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I'm aware of that. Citing Albert Belle's deal from ~26 years ago doesn't feel particularly relevant anymore, but it's fair to bring up. I've been clinging (in my mind) to the fact they had the 4th highest payroll in '06. There is some precedent for Jerry opening the wallet even if he haven't seen it in 15 years.

Of course, the irony was that he was trying to SPITE the rest of baseball by offering that contract in the first place, and he was so fortunate to be bailed out by the Orioles because that deal went BAD really fast.

I would hope almost a quarter of a century later than offering Scherzer wouldn't be for the same contrarian reasons.

 

And, outside of Kuroda and the steroids era (Clemens, Pettitte, etc.), there haven't been many pitchers who beat the aging trends that become so pronounced at age 38 and up.

3 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

Bryan Reynolds would be fantastic but would probably require more than what Hahn is realistically willing to give up. 

OFers within reason I think: Winker and Meadows 

But they should just sign Marte, Castellanos, or I guess Conforto. I’d rather they go the trade route for a 2B (Ketel Marte would be PERFECT, Cronenworth, Jeff McNeil, Brandon Lowe, Whit Merrifield or if not a 2B then trade for a SP1 (Castillo) 

The best you will get out of SD is Frazier or perhaps Grisham if they've soured on him enough....or taking on most of Wil Myers' 2022 salary.

Highly doubt the Royals would trade fan favorite Merrifield to a divisional rival...for the same reason the Cubs wouldn't trade Kris Bryant, unless you paid a huge premium.

If that's the case, just go out and sign Chris Taylor instead and save the prospect talent for when you really need a veteran SP at the trade deadline.

4 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I'm aware of that. Citing Albert Belle's deal from ~26 years ago doesn't feel particularly relevant anymore, but it's fair to bring up. I've been clinging (in my mind) to the fact they had the 4th highest payroll in '06. There is some precedent for Jerry opening the wallet even if he haven't seen it in 15 years.

It’s only relevant because it shows Reinsdorf doesn’t have a precedent against it.  We know he doesn’t like super long deals in general (see Machado capping out at eight years) and in particular for pitchers.  But I think on shorter term deals he’s willing to go really high on an AAV basis.  Just depends if he would do that for an aging pitcher, which obviously remains to be seen.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s only relevant because it shows Reinsdorf doesn’t have a precedent against it.  We know he doesn’t like super long deals in general (see Machado capping out at eight years) and in particular for pitchers.  But I think on shorter term deals he’s willing to go really high on an AAV basis.  Just depends if he would do that for an aging pitcher, which obviously remains to be seen.

That's going to be a massive insurance underwriting deal...especially coming off that dead arm period at the end of the season.  

Scherzer doesn't need to do a tryout, but without his current medicals, seems dicey.  They wouldn't even trade for Escobar in-season based on suspicions, can't imagine they'd risk signing damaged goods and having to pay out $80-120 million in the middle of their contention window.  Gausman is the realistic target, but that's true for most of baseball, which means we are going to have to beat out 8-10 teams for him, and the Giants already have the "home field" advantage in that he was so comfortable out there already on the West Coast and with the Giants' coaching staff set in place.

The last time I remember that becoming a big issue was the David Wells deal in 2001, and, of course, good 'ole Johnny Danks.

47 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What you hearing Pal?

Way, way too early in the offseason but had a few cocktails...my betting right now would be Conforto and Segura in RF and 2nd and Vaughn has played his last game for us. Hopefully a stud Starter is had for Vaughn. Maybe out of Miami. Again, very early.

The idea of ending up with 0 HG players from 2 years of tanking makes me sick to my stomach, but if the Sox are going to deal Vaughn to Miami, Vaughn for Rogers is an interesting idea.

2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

The idea of ending up with 0 HG players from 2 years of tanking makes me sick to my stomach, but if the Sox are going to deal Vaughn to Miami, Vaughn for Rogers is an interesting idea.

Pablo Lopez is far more likely

12 minutes ago, Pal said:

Way, way too early in the offseason but had a few cocktails...my betting right now would be Conforto and Segura in RF and 2nd and Vaughn has played his last game for us. Hopefully a stud Starter is had for Vaughn. Maybe out of Miami. Again, very early.

There's simply no logical reason for them to trade Rogers or Alcantara, both of who put up 4+ fWAR seasons.

Sixto Sanchez is as untouchable as it gets.

That leaves Lopez (LHP) or Luzardo?   Hernandez and Cabrera are two other SP on their depth chart.

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by caulfield12

Just now, fathom said:

Pablo Lopez is far more likely

Turning the #3 pick into 3 years of Pablo Lopez would be a disastrous outcome, in my opinion.

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

If we put Max in the front of our rotation, I am fully OK with us dumpster diving for RF and 2B.

Nah - I want Max and the Marte duo. I stick to my guns - go big or go home on this one. If you get Scherzer….homer Simpson do something…something…go crazy!!! Don’t mind if I do  

Acquiring Bryan Reynolds would make my day. I'd trade Vaughn as the centerpiece in about 2 seconds.

Yep, the talk around here certainly smells of turkey.

37 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Turning the #3 pick into 3 years of Pablo Lopez would be a disastrous outcome, in my opinion.

Yea I’d hope he has way more value but at least Pablo Lopez has decent advanced metrics and seems to be trending in the right direction.

4 hours ago, Pal said:

Lordes Gurriel could be had for at least a season now. Toronto would jump all over him for Vaughn.

This would be awful for the Sox. No thanks.

6 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

This would be awful for the Sox. No thanks.

He’s also a FA in two years 

No way on Gurriel for Vaughn, but maybe Kimbrel + Burger?

2 hours ago, almagest said:

No way on Gurriel for Vaughn, but maybe Kimbrel + Burger?

The problem is the value of a 1.5 fWAR RFer is negligible.  Including the salary increases, not even sure you would claim Gurriel for free based on his arbitration numbers increasing.

Any rumours about what is happening regarding Leury Garcia? Personally if they could get him on a reasonable FA deal I would re-sign him as he is so versatile.