16 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

The hell is up with this team putting DHs and first baseman all over the field?

The Chicago Square Pegs In a Round Hole

Stupid white Sox trying to improve a player

From what little I saw last year, right-handed or not, I want the Burger bat in the Sox line up. I think 2nd base is possibly a great way to make that happen. I can’t believe 2nd base is that much more difficult than 3rd base. Get that bat in the line up.

I’m sure when Moncada was moved to 3rd, people were complaining about how that was a cheap fill-in that would never work. Turn out pretty well.

Another thing, I am confident that the Sox can get to the World Series with some sort of Sheets/ Vaughn/ Engel hybrid in RF. That’s not where I think money should be spent.

Pitching, especially starting pitching, is where the Sox need to spend FA money. I have no confidence in Keuchel, and little confidence in Kopech. 

 

35 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

From what little I saw last year, right-handed or not, I want the Burger bat in the Sox line up. I think 2nd base is possibly a great way to make that happen. I can’t believe 2nd base is that much more difficult than 3rd base. Get that bat in the line up.

I’m sure when Moncada was moved to 3rd, people were complaining about how that was a cheap fill-in that would never work. Turn out pretty well.

Another thing, I am confident that the Sox can get to the World Series with some sort of Sheets/ Vaughn/ Engel hybrid in RF. That’s not where I think money should be spent.

Pitching, especially starting pitching, is where the Sox need to spend FA money. I have no confidence in Keuchel, and little confidence in Kopech. 

 

While I get the desire for more pitching, one big problem with this setup is that it leaves the White Sox very right handed, unless Sheets hits like 45 home runs and becomes an everyday player. Vulnerable to righty starters and especially to bullpen righties.

Another big issue is probably defense. Especially if Robert has any loss of speed from his injury, that’s a very weak OF. Burger might be tolerable at 2b, but it seems hard to expect plus defense from him there. Anderson is generally ok on defense but not great, Abreu is ok but slow, Moncada is quite good, and Grandal is wearing down over time. That’s a lot of middling at best defenders and some really weak ones.

The right answer should be “we saved tons of money in ‘17-‘19 and are selling a lot more tickets so it’s time to actually pay for a roster that can win by filling several positions” but…

Good for Jake.   Hope it works out and proves people wrong. 
 

Fact of the matter is most MLB teams would rather have a strong bat/iffy glove than iffy bat/strong glove in the lineup these days 

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

The right answer should be “we saved tons of money in ‘17-‘19 and are selling a lot more tickets so it’s time to actually pay for a roster that can win by filling several positions” but…

Shouldn't they be thinking that they won't be selling many tickets after the giant fan backlash that will happen with the lockout? I'd be taking a very bearish position on ticket sales over the next two years. Plus, hopefully with the small budget teams being forced into increasing their payrolls, average players will see their contracts increase. Thankfully teams should be seeing their profits squeezed and will have to adjust. 

2 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

The hell is up with this team putting DHs and first baseman all over the field?

Beer league softball lineup.

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Shouldn't they be thinking that they won't be selling many tickets after the giant fan backlash that will happen with the lockout? I'd be taking a very bearish position on ticket sales over the next two years. Plus, hopefully with the small budget teams being forced into increasing their payrolls, average players will see their contracts increase. Thankfully teams should be seeing their profits squeezed and will have to adjust. 

Well, according to Jerry Reinsdorf, the plan should be “Finish in second place every single year because your fans will say ‘Wow, we got a shot. We’re in it!’ But there’s always the carrot left.”

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Well, according to Jerry Reinsdorf, the plan should be “Finish in second place every single year because your fans will say ‘Wow, we got a shot. We’re in it!’ But there’s always the carrot left.”

Better than finishing fifth several years in a row trying to rebuild.  Successful teams are always near the top. You taught me that. 

All well and good. Hope he doesn't get injured in working the moves that a second basemen needs.
The Sox need a professional second baseman. Period.

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well, according to Jerry Reinsdorf, the plan should be “Finish in second place every single year because your fans will say ‘Wow, we got a shot. We’re in it!’ But there’s always the carrot left.”

The funny thing is when they did finish in second every year, the fans stayed away from the park, and from watching on television . 

14 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

All well and good. Hope he doesn't get injured in working the moves that a second basemen needs.
The Sox need a professional second baseman. Period.

I just don't see a way that 2nd and RF aren't weak spots unless we dig a hole somewhere else.  Who knows, maybe Jake can prevent the FO from doing something even dumber. 

Or, someone has to back up Garcia at 2nd. (sigh)

3 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

From what little I saw last year, right-handed or not, I want the Burger bat in the Sox line up. I think 2nd base is possibly a great way to make that happen. I can’t believe 2nd base is that much more difficult than 3rd base. Get that bat in the line up.

I’m sure when Moncada was moved to 3rd, people were complaining about how that was a cheap fill-in that would never work. Turn out pretty well.

I agree with you that I think it'll be great to see his bat in the lineup and I think it plays at the major league level, and I do think stretching him out at 2B in the off-season is a great idea to see if that's how we can fit him into the lineup.

Where I have issue is the "can’t believe 2nd base is that much more difficult than 3rd base." The footwork, glovework, and quick hands/body are definitely different from anything he may have done at 3B. It's no longer fielding something and throwing to someone right in front of you; turning the DP and flipping around *smoothly* to throw to 1B requires totally different body control.

I want to see if he can develop that, but turning DPs is a huge portion of the 2B defensive requirements, especially when we have ground ball pitchers like Keuchel that will rely on it for outs.

@MiddleCoastBias makes a great point. While I agree with @vilehoopster that it isn't any more difficult it is a different skill set. My guess is Jake was a three sport athlete at some point before building his body for baseball. I think the best news in this is he's thinking how can I help this team and putting in the work. Hopefully that attitude fills the clubhouse. 

4 hours ago, bmags said:

Stupid white Sox trying to improve a player

Too bad they don't have talented scouts that Soxtalk has

28 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I just don't see a way that 2nd and RF aren't weak spots unless we dig a hole somewhere else.  Who knows, maybe Jake can prevent the FO from doing something even dumber. 

Or, someone has to back up Garcia at 2nd. (sigh)

Are 2nd base and RF weak spots, or are they the only places where Sox don't have an all-star or Silver Slugger candidate? 

Potential all-stars/ Silver Sluggers:  Catcher, check:  1st base, check;  shortstop, check;  3rd base, check;   LF, check;  centerfield, check.  So that leaves only RF and 2nd. 

Vaughn had an OPS of .938 vs lefties last year (rookie year) and Sheets had an OPS of .900 vs. righties last year, also as a rookie. Both were competent in the field. Again both were rookies and should show significant improvement in 2nd year (You know like Moncada and Robert).  So,  to label a RF hybrid of those two as a weakness going into next year is just not true. Are they all-star/ Silver Slugger candidates? No, but far from weaknesses. Well, maybe defensively, but as someone said earlier on this thread, the move now is to sacrifice defense to get big offense in the line up. I agree with that. 

Now as for maybe Burger at 2nd base, that's a pretty electric bat, so far from all indications. He might struggle there on defense (let's fine out), but again, is 2nd base really that more difficult than 3rd; let's get that bat in the line up; it has a much higher ceiling than Garcia or anyone else I can imagine the Sox getting. 

That's funny, middlecoastbias answered my question and posted while I was typing out the above reply. That's why my comment seems of order. 

Just now, vilehoopster said:

Are 2nd base and RF weak spots, or are they the only places where Sox don't have an all-star or Silver Slugger candidate? 

Potential all-stars/ Silver Sluggers:  Catcher, check:  1st base, check;  shortstop, check;  3rd base, check;   LF, check;  centerfield, check.  So that leaves only RF and 2nd. 

Vaughn had an OPS of .938 vs lefties last year (rookie year) and Sheets had an OPS of .900 vs. righties last year, also as a rookie. Both were competent in the field. Again both were rookies and should show significant improvement in 2nd year (You know like Moncada and Robert).  So,  to label a RF hybrid of those two as a weakness going into next year is just not true. Are they all-star/ Silver Slugger candidates? No, but far from weaknesses. Well, maybe defensively, but as someone said earlier on this thread, the move now is to sacrifice defense to get big offense in the line up. I agree with that. 

Now as for maybe Burger at 2nd base, that's a pretty electric bat, so far from all indications. He might struggle there on defense (let's fine out), but again, is 2nd base really that more difficult than 3rd; let's get that bat in the line up; it has a much higher ceiling than Garcia or anyone else I can imagine the Sox getting. 

Good point. But my thought process is this - Do we have a players at those positions that other MLB teams would consider an upgrade. I think that is a great big nooooo.  

I only played 2B at the high school level but I do personally believe it is the easiest infield position to learn. Burger's range is going to be limited no matter what but if he can be put in the right spot for each batter he can be an average 2B and if his bat can be good I would be fine with that. 

Either way him being able to play 3B, 2B, and maybe 1B gives him a shot to make the roster as a UTIL guy or more likely to be traded. Nothing wrong with him learning a different position 

18 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

Burger being able to handle 2B in a pinch would be great. There's no downside in working out there and giving him reps in ST/AAA to see if it sticks.

But my fear is this will give the Sox even more confidence they can cheap out at 2B with Burger waiting to replace whoever the Cesaresque player they add as a stop gap option once the lockout ends.

Sox can go cheap on 2B if they want. Just sign Conforto. 

6 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

The hell is up with this team putting DHs and first baseman all over the field?

I'll reserve judgment.  Juan Uribe didn't much look like a typical infielder either.

5 hours ago, bmags said:

Stupid white Sox trying to improve a player

Worked well with Beckham, Viciedo, Josh Fields and Teahen.

Can add Marcus Semien.

Edited January 15, 20224 yr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

@MiddleCoastBias makes a great point. While I agree with @vilehoopster that it isn't any more difficult it is a different skill set. My guess is Jake was a three sport athlete at some point before building his body for baseball. I think the best news in this is he's thinking how can I help this team and putting in the work. Hopefully that attitude fills the clubhouse. 

Why can't Moncada do the same?

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why can't Moncada do the same?

I think he could. I think it's something that should be explored, but only if they have an opportunity so sign a better 3rd baseman and need to make room. Why break something trying to fix something else? 

54 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Worked well with Beckham, Viciedo, Josh Fields and Teahen.

Can add Marcus Semien.

What?