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Fire Rick Hahn


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On 8/1/2022 at 3:01 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Who did the Bears turn to for help? The Arizona Cardinals

Who would Jerry turn to for help? Tony La Russa.

Who would be the first President, GM and Manager/Head Coach in any sport since George Halas? Arizona Diamondbacks' Tony La Russa

 

You watched a lot of MTV between like 1989 and 1992, didn't you?

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The thing is: Firing Rick Hahn doesn’t accomplish anything. The reason the Sox have been a dysfunctional mess is that nobody knows who is really in charge. Hahn, KW, LaRussa?  Or is Jerry so hands on that he is the de facto GM?

 

Rick Hahn might  as well be the best GM in the world, but with the way the organization is set up he would be just another fall guy.

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22 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Imagine what is like for a GM who can't fire a manager.  I'm sure Kenny is handcuffed. You have a guy sleeping in the dugout and the king sleeping on the throne.

That's where I'm at.  I think this team could actually contend.  Rick and Kenny are not blameless, but they've been placed in an impossible situation.  I'm just going to continue to hope this core can get healthy and wake up and soldier on despite TLR. 

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11 minutes ago, bmags said:

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Is it possible that both are the problem? 

The only things that Hahn has done well are trading Adam Eaton, Chris Sale and Jose Quintana. Anyone could have received a decent return for those three. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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7 minutes ago, bmags said:

I knew where you'd fall 

I think Hahn sucks but Jerry sucks too.

I wanted Hahn fired in 2016. 

Hahn has done a terrible job working around Jerry's budget and other constraints. He deserves to be fired.

But firing Hahn won't solve the problem itself. Could it help? Sure. 

Jerry has the team 20 years behind the times and that is the issue. 

All of the issues the Sox have right now were issues under KW as well. 

The issues with the Sox are more nuanced than just Hahn vs Jerry. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think Hahn sucks but Jerry sucks too.

I wanted Hahn fired in 2016. 

Hahn has done a terrible job working around Jerry's budget and other constraints. He deserves to be fired.

But firing Hahn won't solve the problem itself. Could it help? Sure. 

Jerry has the team 20 years behind the times and that is the issue. 

All of the issues the Sox have right now were issues under KW as well. 

The issues with the Sox are more nuanced than just Hahn vs Jerry. 

Some of the White Sox's issues were issues under KW. But I noted while checking a couple nights ago, the last time the White Sox were anything other than in the top 10 for groundball rate was 2013 - in 2014, Rick Hahn hired his first hitting coach. 

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Some of the White Sox's issues were issues under KW. But I noted while checking a couple nights ago, the last time the White Sox were anything other than in the top 10 for groundball rate was 2013 - in 2014, Rick Hahn hired his first hitting coach. 

Was talking more about the shitty farm system and playing DHs in the field. 

Good point about the ground ball rate. 

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Was talking more about the shitty farm system and playing DHs in the field. 

Good point about the ground ball rate. 

The failure to invest in the farm and conflicts among the front office were definitely KW things, although somehow the latter does seem to be uniquely bad under Rick Hahn. Lots of money spent on the bullpen was a KW thing. 

The horrible big league scouting, these approaches at the plate - definitely uniquely confined to Hahn. 

The "major prospects busting" issue is also seemingly confined to Hahn, but that's in no small part because Kenny never had any.

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The failure to invest in the farm and conflicts among the front office were definitely KW things, although somehow the latter does seem to be uniquely bad under Rick Hahn. Lots of money spent on the bullpen was a KW thing. 

The horrible big league scouting, these approaches at the plate - definitely uniquely confined to Hahn. 

The "major prospects busting" issue is also seemingly confined to Hahn, but that's in no small part because Kenny never had any.

I remember the two of us barking in 2016 about how Hahn should be fired, and someone else should be re-building the club. 

Bolded: Borchard? Brian Anderson? 

Kenny was better at pro scouting than Rick is, I'll agree there. He had a run when he found guys that were underperforming and got the most out of them with the coaching staff from 03-08. Loaiza, Contreras, Quentin, Thornton to name a few. 

 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

I remember the two of us barking in 2016 about how Hahn should be fired. 

My math said that by the end of 2016, 29 teams would have fired Rick Hahn, and a  majority of them would have fired him 4 different times. (2013 collapse, 2015 playoff miss, Tatis trade, 2016 playoff miss).

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My math said that by the end of 2016, 29 teams would have fired Rick Hahn, and a  majority of them would have fired him 4 different times. (2013 collapse, 2015 playoff miss, Tatis trade, 2016 playoff miss).

I'll disagree with you about 2013, because that was a mostly aging roster and he had only been GM for a year or two. (I don't remember if 2011 or 2012 was Hahn's first year as GM) But I have no arguments about the other ones. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'll disagree with you about 2013, because that was a mostly aging roster and he had only been GM for a year or two. (I don't remember if 2011 or 2012 was Hahn's first year as GM) But I have no arguments about the other ones. 

Its a results business.  A guy adding pieces to his roster, extending Peavy, signing Keppinger, and believing he had a chance to be competitive, and then his team wins 63 games? We saw Arizona clean house after doing something very similar to that a year or two later. I'd rank that one as harsh, but like half the teams in the bigs would probably do it. 

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This is my prediction "The cost was significant and we felt we couldn't sacrifice multiple years of being mediocre for one year of being mediocre.  Our big acquisition is health. When the players all get back and we get them all on the field that's when we can make a run.  This division is within reach.  Oh the Twins, as Kenny said before, they  now match up better with us but I like our team better. Plus they don't have a HoF manager like we do." Rick Hahn.

 

Edited by southsideirish71
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25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Its a results business.  A guy adding pieces to his roster, extending Peavy, signing Keppinger, and believing he had a chance to be competitive, and then his team wins 63 games? We saw Arizona clean house after doing something very similar to that a year or two later. I'd rank that one as harsh, but like half the teams in the bigs would probably do it. 

Listen, Hahn sucks. I acknowledge that. He deserved to be fired years ago. 

There are a lot of things from a baseball operations standpoint that are problems with the org, and those start with Jerry. 

If Jerry wants to operate from a payroll standpoint the way he does (No long-term commitments, no large contracts, willing to spend a lot short-term during a window) Then he needs to invest in the infrastructure to make that feasible from a baseball ops standpoint. Invest heavily in player development, maybe max out at $175M instead of $195M and take the extra money and invest it in scouting, sabermetrics and player development. He can't be 20 years behind the times in these departments and expect to operate the way he does. 

Expensive bullpens need to stop, but that's on Hahn and Kenny during each of their tenures. 

My biggest complaint about Reinsdorf is more about being dumb about picking a lane. He's penny wise but dollar foolish. 

He's not cheap on total payroll during windows but isn't willing to take the risk to put the team over the top. That's fine, if you're churning out a top farm system on an annual basis. He won't spend to do that. Been a problem for this entire century. 

 

Beyond the baseball ops complaints, I guess my other complaint is that Hahn and Kenny still have jobs. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Listen, Hahn sucks. I acknowledge that. He deserved to be fired years ago. 

 There are a lot of things from a baseball operations standpoint that are problems with the org, and those start with Jerry. 

 If Jerry wants to operate from a payroll standpoint the way he does (No long-term commitments, no large contracts, willing to spend a lot short-term during a window) Then he needs to invest in the infrastructure to make that feasible from a baseball ops standpoint. Invest heavily in player development, maybe max out at $175M instead of $195M and take the extra money and invest it in scouting, sabermetrics and player development. 

 Expensive bullpens need to stop, but that's on Hahn and Kenny during each of their tenures. 

Dave Duncans kid is our sabrmetrics guy.  He took a Udemy course and has a fully stacked Dell laptop with extra memory and Excel professional.  

 

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