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Old Sock Drawer, ex Sox player discussion


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53 minutes ago, jasonxctf said:

If Jerry would spend unlimited cash then sure. But that’s not how he is. There’s no way they have a starting rotation of…

Rodon- $22 million

Keuchel- $18 million

Giolito- $7.5 million

Cease- $750k

Lynn- $14 million

~$62 million for their starting 5?!?!

I don't think $62.5M is particular expensive for a starting staff expected to make a deep playoff run. What did the Mets just pay for Scherzer ? The Astros signed Verlander again for what ? $25M ?

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4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It was their own fault he wasn't available come playoff time last year. The facts speak for themselves. They abused him after he had barely pitched the previous 2 seasons. They could've babied him along 5 innings max or a max pitch count and no deviating from it. I mean he'll always have the no hitter but maybe he would've liked a ring more.

There's no guarantee anyone is available come playoff time but you have to get their 1st. Let's see if Kopech can make it to the playoffs.

The Giants broadcast was talking today about how remarkable Rodon's no-hitter was in large part because it happened in April. Different circumstances obviously, but the last 2 nights pitchers have been pulled after 7 with no-hitters going. I think it's fair to say riding Rodon as hard as the Sox did in the first half may have contributed to him wearing down in the 2nd half.

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9 minutes ago, tray said:

Hahn doubling down on  Kimbrel for 16 Mil  is even more maddening when considering what Rodon could have meant to our rotation.

 

It's ok people are waiting in the wings to tell us all " I told you so" when he stubs his toe. If I've said it once , I've said it 1000 times. I'd have taken my chance on the 29 yr old arm that is a top pitcher in baseball $44M for 2 years than Kikuchi , Stroman or any other starting pitcher that signed in the $30-50M range.

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4 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

The Giants broadcast was talking today about how remarkable Rodon's no-hitter was in large part because it happened in April. Different circumstances obviously, but the last 2 nights pitchers have been pulled after 7 with no-hitters going. I think it's fair to say riding Rodon as hard as the Sox did in the first half may have contributed to him wearing down in the 2nd half.

It's a no doubter to me. I know the Sox sucked at taking care of him. It's all right there in the game logs. Remember how Rodon seemed to start slow with us throwing in the low 90's and finishing strong in the upper 90's ? Now he's coming out of the gate throwing high 90's. Giants only pitched him 6 innings this spring. White Sox 13.2 last spring. His 1st 18 starts he never pitched less than 5 innings and 10 of the 18 he pitched 6 or more innings.

After throwing 7 innings July 18 . He only made 8 more starts in the regular season  none longer than 5 IP. They rested him 20 days in August. In Sept. they gave him 9 or 10 days between each start. So they waited until he was worn down then started resting him. A much more balanced approach to his pitching schedule more than likely allows him to stay fresher longer.

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1 hour ago, jasonxctf said:

Nothing but best wishes for Carlos but not sure $22 million a year for each of the next 2 years would have been a wise investment for the Sox. Hope Carlos stays healthy but he hasn’t been able to put together a full, healthy year of quality starts since 2016. 

so yeah it would have been nice to have him on the team and I’m sure if they could have gotten him for $10-12 mil or a 1 year deal they would have, but where the market set his price, this team couldn’t go to. 

Yes they could've if they made him a priority. You lose your best starting pitcher and his production needs to be replaced. Starting pitching was the 1st thing the Sox should 've pursued this off season.

Step A. Give Rodon QO, draft pick attached makes him worth less.

Step B. Do not pick up the option on Kimbrel. Bam !! $16M available right there.

1st 2 moves of the off season both saves you money should you decide to resign Rodon.

All other moves come after Rodon is resigned or another pitcher is acquired.

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3 hours ago, jasonxctf said:

If Jerry would spend unlimited cash then sure. But that’s not how he is. There’s no way they have a starting rotation of…

Rodon- $22 million

Keuchel- $18 million

Giolito- $7.5 million

Cease- $750k

Lynn- $14 million

~$62 million for their starting 5?!?!

Man, I am really worried what's going to happen if Keuchel gets that option to vest. Having his money off the books would give the Sox plenty more to play with for next year. I know there's been many on here saying they will find a way, but can we really keep telling ourselves that with Lynn and now Gio out?

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5 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Man, I am really worried what's going to happen if Keuchel gets that option to vest. Having his money off the books would give the Sox plenty more to play with for next year. I know there's been many on here saying they will find a way, but can we really keep telling ourselves that with Lynn and now Gio out?

Yeah, it seems like it's going to be an issue. Especially if he pitches better than VV and Lopez. 

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2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes they could've if they made him a priority. You lose your best starting pitcher and his production needs to be replaced. Starting pitching was the 1st thing the Sox should 've pursued this off season.

Step A. Give Rodon QO, draft pick attached makes him worth less.

Step B. Do not pick up the option on Kimbrel. Bam !! $16M available right there.

1st 2 moves of the off season both saves you money should you decide to resign Rodon.

All other moves come after Rodon is resigned or another pitcher is acquired.

Yeah, that other poster Jason Hahn or whatever is being disingenuous. 

We know that QOs decrease a FA's market, for all but the absolute elite of free agents. Given that Rodon got $21.5MM for this season WITHOUT the QO, what could his price have been WITH the QO? 

 

I'm sure this research has been done before, but if we theorize a 10% decrease in his offers with a QO, he'd be at all of $19.35MM for this season instead of $21.5MM. IOW, all of $900k or so more than the QO itself.

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3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's a no doubter to me. I know the Sox sucked at taking care of him. It's all right there in the game logs. Remember how Rodon seemed to start slow with us throwing in the low 90's and finishing strong in the upper 90's ? Now he's coming out of the gate throwing high 90's. Giants only pitched him 6 innings this spring. White Sox 13.2 last spring. His 1st 18 starts he never pitched less than 5 innings and 10 of the 18 he pitched 6 or more innings.

After throwing 7 innings July 18 . He only made 8 more starts in the regular season  none longer than 5 IP. They rested him 20 days in August. In Sept. they gave him 9 or 10 days between each start. So they waited until he was worn down then started resting him. A much more balanced approach to his pitching schedule more than likely allows him to stay fresher longer.

He threw 89 pitches yesterday afternoon, thought they would pull him after 5. 

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26 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yeah, that other poster Jason Hahn or whatever is being disingenuous. 

We know that QOs decrease a FA's market, for all but the absolute elite of free agents. Given that Rodon got $21.5MM for this season WITHOUT the QO, what could his price have been WITH the QO? 

 

I'm sure this research has been done before, but if we theorize a 10% decrease in his offers with a QO, he'd be at all of $19.35MM for this season instead of $21.5MM. IOW, all of $900k or so more than the QO itself.

Compensation pick meant a lot less to the Sox than the $44-50 million... assuming they would just throw thst pick at another collegiate reliever who would unlikely impact the 2022-24 contention window. 

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15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Bassitt got the win for the Mets as well... Washington might be next to tear down.  Someone like Corbin, but too high a salary to take on. 

Strasburg

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7 hours ago, dohnut said:

Yep - he’s gonna be great and we should’ve given him a qualifying offer. But, I’d bet my house he’s hurt by June.

Our top two starters were hurt by the end of opening day so Rodon last until June would be an improvement! 

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1 hour ago, Chimpton said:

Our top two starters were hurt by the end of opening day so Rodon last until June would be an improvement! 

Unless the team is completely decimated by injuries for months on end, there’s no reason the Sox shouldn’t win this division. Even with the injuries, they’re still the most talented team by a lot. If the Sox have 4 healthy starting pitchers in Giolito, Lynn, Cease, and Kopech come October, that’s as good or better than any other team in baseball.

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6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

He threw 89 pitches yesterday afternoon, thought they would pull him after 5. 

If I'm reading the game logs right there are the number of pitches Rodon threw in his 1st 18 starts ending July 18th:

April: 95,114, 110, 96

May: 92, 110, 95, 94,85

June: 106, 103, 106,104

July : 97, 104, 98

After that : 79,74, 89, 67, 77, 86, 69 , 69 .

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1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If I'm reading the game logs right there are the number of pitches Rodon threw in his 1st 18 starts ending July 18th:

April: 95,114, 110, 96

May: 92, 110, 95, 94,85

June: 106, 103, 106,104

July : 97, 104, 98

After that : 79,74, 89, 67, 77, 86, 69 , 69 .

They burned him early in the season because no one thought he would pitch that well nor stay healthy through it .

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19 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

His first game stat line in 2021: 5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 9 K, 95 pitches.

Looks awfully similar. Talk to me again in September/October and let’s see how he’s holding up. That’s when it matters most.

Why exactly are you comparing last year to this year ? In 2021 he had barely pitched in 2 years (2019,2020)

Last year he pitched  :ST 13.2 , Season 139.1 Post Season: 2.2 = 155.2 innings . Now that he's got some innings under his belt, theoretically, he should be able to pitch more this year. However knowing his history I'm just going to take a wild guess and say the Giants are more careful with him this year than the Sox were with him last year because , oh I don't know, maybe they hope they can use him in the playoffs ??

Unfortunately they have a much harder road to the playoffs this year than the Sox had last year. It will be interesting to see how they use him but between spring training and his 1st start they have already pitched him  7.2 less innings. Doesn't look awfully similar to me.

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16 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They burned him early in the season because no one thought he would pitch that well nor stay healthy through it .

LOL OK Now I am really starting to think you are going to the well to fill that bucket.

So you are telling me that a professional organization that is supposed to care about winning a World Series and care about the health of their best pitcher ( yes early on Rodon showed he was the best Sox pitcher),your logic is "he never stays healthy so let's do things that are going to make sure he doesn't stay healthy" ?

Is that how you treat your patients ? Oh well this guy is never healthy so screw him. Next victim in line !!

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36 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Unless the team is completely decimated by injuries for months on end, there’s no reason the Sox shouldn’t win this division. Even with the injuries, they’re still the most talented team by a lot. If the Sox have 4 healthy starting pitchers in Giolito, Lynn, Cease, and Kopech come October, that’s as good or better than any other team in baseball.

That is a mighty big 'IF' and we had 3 of those 4 last season and still didn't get beyond round 1 of the playoffs.

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