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Old Sock Drawer, ex Sox player discussion


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12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why exactly are you comparing last year to this year ? In 2021 he had barely pitched in 2 years (2019,2020)

Last year he pitched  :ST 13.2 , Season 139.1 Post Season: 2.2 = 155.2 innings . Now that he's got some innings under his belt, theoretically, he should be able to pitch more this year. However knowing his history I'm just going to take a wild guess and say the Giants are more careful with him this year than the Sox were with him last year because , oh I don't know, maybe they hope they can use him in the playoffs ??

Unfortunately they have a much harder road to the playoffs this year than the Sox had last year. It will be interesting to see how they use him but between spring training and his 1st start they have already pitched him  7.2 less innings. Doesn't look awfully similar to me.

His stat line from his first start in 2021 compared to his first start in 2022 are nearly identical. That’s all I was saying. Let’s check in again in another 5-6 months to see how he’s holding up…

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9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's a no doubter to me. I know the Sox sucked at taking care of him. It's all right there in the game logs. Remember how Rodon seemed to start slow with us throwing in the low 90's and finishing strong in the upper 90's ? Now he's coming out of the gate throwing high 90's. Giants only pitched him 6 innings this spring. White Sox 13.2 last spring. His 1st 18 starts he never pitched less than 5 innings and 10 of the 18 he pitched 6 or more innings.

After throwing 7 innings July 18 . He only made 8 more starts in the regular season  none longer than 5 IP. They rested him 20 days in August. In Sept. they gave him 9 or 10 days between each start. So they waited until he was worn down then started resting him. A much more balanced approach to his pitching schedule more than likely allows him to stay fresher longer.

I agree, the Sox overworked him especially with his injury history.  Probably a result of TLR wanting to go all in and win the WS for JR  without any thought what so ever about Rodon's long term health.

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6 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

That is a mighty big 'IF' and we had 3 of those 4 last season and still didn't get beyond round 1 of the playoffs.

Shit happens. The Astros were a terrible matchup for the Sox last season. Rodon didn’t make a difference in that series then and if the top 4 in this year’s rotation pitch like that again in this year’s playoffs Rodon wouldn’t make a difference this season either. They have the horses to win, now they just have to stay healthy and get the job done.

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3 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

I agree, the Sox overworked him especially with his injury history.  Probably a result of TLR wanting to go all in and win the WS for JR  without any thought what so ever about Rodon's long term health.

The Sox abused him so badly last year that they only revived his career, which led to a $44M payday, when no one else wanted to touch him with a ten foot pole a year ago. No other team was willing to give him even $3M, let alone a starting spot in their rotation. So yea, this shtick about how the Sox were so bad to Rodon last year is rather ironic.

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9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The Sox abused him so badly last year that they only revived his career, which led to a $44M payday, when no one else wanted to touch him with a ten foot pole a year ago. No other team was willing to give him even $3M, let alone a starting spot in their rotation. So yea, this shtick about how the Sox were so bad to Rodon last year is rather ironic.

both things can be true, and likely, since there was no QO and 0 intention to resign him after a 5 WAR 2021.

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1 minute ago, reiks12 said:

both things can be true, and likely, since there was no QO and 0 intention to resign him after a 5 WAR 2021.

Last season had nothing to do with the Sox not extending the QO but the prior 4 seasons sure did. If he was relatively healthy prior to last season, I don’t think his fade during the second half of last season would have prevented them from offering the QO.

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21 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

I agree, the Sox overworked him especially with his injury history.  Probably a result of TLR wanting to go all in and win the WS for JR  without any thought what so ever about Rodon's long term health.

Yep. I think TLR wants to win one for his buddy and re retire. I don’t think he expected to be in this for the long haul. He looks exhausted after games. 

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42 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

LOL OK Now I am really starting to think you are going to the well to fill that bucket.

So you are telling me that a professional organization that is supposed to care about winning a World Series and care about the health of their best pitcher ( yes early on Rodon showed he was the best Sox pitcher),your logic is "he never stays healthy so let's do things that are going to make sure he doesn't stay healthy" ?

Is that how you treat your patients ? Oh well this guy is never healthy so screw him. Next victim in line !!

I don't think anyone in their right mind thought Rodon was their best pitcher when the year started. If this was true he wouldn't have signed for 3 million. And yes, organizations treat veterans on minimal contracts much differently than prospects and promising young players.

If you thought he was the best pitcher and a Cy Young candidate you need to change your screen name to Nostradamus.

As far as the medical team is concerned our job is to try to keep them on the field or get them back as soon as possible. This is not always the priority of the organization.

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6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think anyone in their right mind thought Rodon was their best pitcher when the year started. If this was true he wouldn't have signed for 3 million. And yes, organizations treat veterans on minimal contracts much differently than prospects and promising young players.

If you thought he was the best pitcher and a Cy Young candidate you need to change your screen name to Nostradamus.

As far as the medical team is concerned our job is to try to keep them on the field or get them back as soon as possible. This is not always the priority of the organization.

Would have loved to be privy to the communication on Rodon between Boras Corp. and the front office from August through QO time…

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29 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The Sox abused him so badly last year that they only revived his career, which led to a $44M payday, when no one else wanted to touch him with a ten foot pole a year ago. No other team was willing to give him even $3M, let alone a starting spot in their rotation. So yea, this shtick about how the Sox were so bad to Rodon last year is rather ironic.

good point, but he still could have commanded a higher salary and a longer contract had they pulled in the reins and not allow him to go over 80 pitches early in the year.

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15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Would have loved to be privy to the communication on Rodon between Boras Corp. and the front office from August through QO time…

No doubt.

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20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Would have loved to be privy to the communication on Rodon between Boras Corp. and the front office from August through QO time…

There should have been only one communication from the team to Boras: "We're giving him the QO. Deal with it."

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2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Last season had nothing to do with the Sox not extending the QO but the prior 4 seasons sure did. If he was relatively healthy prior to last season, I don’t think his fade during the second half of last season would have prevented them from offering the QO.

They should have offered the QO because of his 2021, i think any other team would have. Boras even seemed shocked they didnt do it. It was worth the "gamble" and if he says no you still have a 2nd rounder for the worst farm system and in all of baseball. If he says yes you have a TOR arm. Injury prone or not if he does half as good as last year hes still worth 16 million. Instead we went with Velasquez and Cueto for what, 10 million? Doubt they even sniff 1 WAR between them.

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13 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't think $62.5M is particular expensive for a starting staff expected to make a deep playoff run. What did the Mets just pay for Scherzer ? The Astros signed Verlander again for what ? $25M ?

SPOTRAC SP Payrolls

The highest SP Payroll: NYM are at $93MM, including their injured players and AAA types on the 40 man. NOTE: they have 7 SPs on their 40 man.

The scrubs, who are supposedly not trying to compete, are at $55MM, and they have 8 SPs

 

The SOX are at $46MM, with 6 SPs on the payroll: Keuchel, Lynn, Giolito, Cease, Kopech, and Stiever.

 

So no, $62MM on SPs isn't terrible.

 

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9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Compensation pick meant a lot less to the Sox than the $44-50 million... assuming they would just throw thst pick at another collegiate reliever who would unlikely impact the 2022-24 contention window. 

Agreed.

They could have retained Rodon, and still addressed 2B and RF, and still replaced departed/departing RP pieces, and still met their budget.

They wouldn't have had the ability to land the exorbitant luxury of a $41MM bullpen, but other teams figure out how to compete without having to dump 21% of their payroll on RPs.

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2 hours ago, ptatc said:

I don't think anyone in their right mind thought Rodon was their best pitcher when the year started. If this was true he wouldn't have signed for 3 million. And yes, organizations treat veterans on minimal contracts much differently than prospects and promising young players.

If you thought he was the best pitcher and a Cy Young candidate you need to change your screen name to Nostradamus.

As far as the medical team is concerned our job is to try to keep them on the field or get them back as soon as possible. This is not always the priority of the organization.

Wow Ptatc . I never said he was their best pitcher when the season started yet you spend much of your post inferring that.

I said early in the season he exhibited that he was their best starter ( 4 April starts with a 0.72 ERA ). You aren't doing your argument any favors by loosely paraphrasing what I said then telling me the Sox didn't give a damn about him when it's fairly clear a smart organization would have treated him better. 

So they are either not a smart organization or pitched him into the ground by not caring at all about him or winning . Good choices !

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17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Wow Ptatc . I never said he was their best pitcher when the season started yet you spend much of your post inferring that.

I said early in the season he exhibited that he was their best starter ( 4 April starts with a 0.72 ERA ). You aren't doing your argument any favors by loosely paraphrasing what I said then telling me the Sox didn't give a damn about him when it's fairly clear a smart organization would have treated him better. 

So they are either not a smart organization or pitched him into the ground by not caring at all about him or winning . Good choices !

No organization would have treated him differently.  After 4 April starts very one would assume he was going to get injured or have a performance drop off as that was his history.  There was nothing in his past that would have said, wow he is now going to be this pitcher for the rest of the year.

It only hindsight that he was going to have a good year. A good April does not predict a good year, for example, Mercedes.

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5 hours ago, reiks12 said:

They should have offered the QO because of his 2021, i think any other team would have. Boras even seemed shocked they didnt do it. It was worth the "gamble" and if he says no you still have a 2nd rounder for the worst farm system and in all of baseball. If he says yes you have a TOR arm. Injury prone or not if he does half as good as last year hes still worth 16 million. Instead we went with Velasquez and Cueto for what, 10 million? Doubt they even sniff 1 WAR between them.

Meh. Let’s see how the season plays out before being so upset about losing Rodon. I have a feeling Rodon will be an afterthought come September.

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8 hours ago, reiks12 said:

They should have offered the QO because of his 2021, i think any other team would have. Boras even seemed shocked they didnt do it. It was worth the "gamble" and if he says no you still have a 2nd rounder for the worst farm system and in all of baseball. If he says yes you have a TOR arm. Injury prone or not if he does half as good as last year hes still worth 16 million. Instead we went with Velasquez and Cueto for what, 10 million? Doubt they even sniff 1 WAR between them.

Right but it would have destroyed his FA market.  Just because you can, doesn’t always mean you should.  I think that applies here, as has been discussed plenty. 

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1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

If everybody stays healthy, sometime during July 1-3 we get Carlos Rodon vs Anderson/Robert/Abreu/Jimenez/Grandal/Vaughn/Moncada/Pollock/Harrison and it will be epic.

Got our tix!

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I am really surprised people bemoaning the Sox not outbidding SF for Rodin. Are our memories this short? He was outstanding last year then he wore down. A total non-factor after August 1st. A total non-factor after August and that was his best/ healthiest year in five years, since 2016. 

Do you really think the Sox should have gone over $44 million for two years for a guy who was, only part way healthy, once in the last five years? Again are our memories this short? Sure he was great that last start. We’ve seen that before too.

I could be completely wrong, but I would be shocked if Rodon wins 22 games for SF over the length of that contract, shocked. 

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10 hours ago, reiks12 said:

They should have offered the QO because of his 2021, i think any other team would have. Boras even seemed shocked they didnt do it. It was worth the "gamble" and if he says no you still have a 2nd rounder for the worst farm system and in all of baseball. If he says yes you have a TOR arm. Injury prone or not if he does half as good as last year hes still worth 16 million. Instead we went with Velasquez and Cueto for what, 10 million? Doubt they even sniff 1 WAR between them.

Should be about $6.5 million but doubtful Cueto lasts the entire season. 

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2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:


I am really surprised people bemoaning the Sox not outbidding SF for Rodin. Are our memories this short? He was outstanding last year then he wore down. A total non-factor after August 1st. A total non-factor after August and that was his best/ healthiest year in five years, since 2016. 

Do you really think the Sox should have gone over $44 million for two years for a guy who was, only part way healthy, once in the last five years? Again are our memories this short? Sure he was great that last start. We’ve seen that before too.

I could be completely wrong, but I would be shocked if Rodon wins 22 games for SF over the length of that contract, shocked. 

The baseline for the 2018-20 seasons was so low.  He hit a wall. 

If he throws 150-160 effective innings this year, Hahn will have made the wrong decision again... 

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