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So is Gavin Sheets for real?


Greg Hibbard
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3 hours ago, Timmy U said:

So what's your solution?  Keep them all and have the worst OF defense known to man?  Trade Sheets, the only lefty in their line up?  Trade Eloy?  Move Vaughn to 2b? Currently, the rules don't allow 5 DHs.  I like Abreu, Vaughn, Eloy, and Sheets.  They just don't make sense together on this roster.

they're gonna have to trade some guys to fill holes. whether it's Gio, Tim (unlikely), Sheets, Vaughn (likely, best return, easiest guy to replace at his natural position), whoever it is there are gonna be some upset folks here

I'm at the point where I don't care who they trade as long as it's a whole new front office doing it

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2022 RISP

Jose: .244/.344/.472

Vaughn: .341/.392/.455

2022 RISP w/ 2 outs

Jose: .237/.357/.475

Vaughn: .342/.413/.439

2022 "Late and Close"

Jose: .292/.378/.319

Vaughn: .294/.342/.544

Yet this board is desperately trying to jettison the younger guy that is only getting better.  You have your 1B of the future, slot him cleanup every day and let the man hit.  Hell, he'd likely lead the league in GIDP and carry on Jose's legacy. 

 

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29 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

2022 RISP

Jose: .244/.344/.472

Vaughn: .341/.392/.455

2022 RISP w/ 2 outs

Jose: .237/.357/.475

Vaughn: .342/.413/.439

2022 "Late and Close"

Jose: .292/.378/.319

Vaughn: .294/.342/.544

Yet this board is desperately trying to jettison the younger guy that is only getting better.  You have your 1B of the future, slot him cleanup every day and let the man hit.  Hell, he'd likely lead the league in GIDP and carry on Jose's legacy. 

 

lol it's 1 year, those stats are exactly the things you use to trade a guy with limited skills to get the best return

he's a 1B/DH in his 2nd year, you're acting like he's Mike Trout

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55 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Andrew Vaughn has 1 less hit than Jose this year with RISP in 49 fewer attempts.  Jose is a huge part of the problem. 

We are just going to pretend that Abreu hasn't led the AL in RBI twice and averaged over 100 RBI for season for his full season career, and use only RISP for 2022? 

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14 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

lol it's 1 year, those stats are exactly the things you use to trade a guy with limited skills to get the best return

he's a 1B/DH in his 2nd year, you're acting like he's Mike Trout

If you noticed, I'm comparing him directly to Jose Abreu, who people on this board seem to think is having a good year, while acting like Vaughn is having a bad one.  Never came close to acting like the dude was Mike Trout. 

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We are just going to pretend that Abreu hasn't led the AL in RBI twice and averaged over 100 RBI for season for his full season career, and use only RISP for 2022? 

Are we just going to keep pretending he's still that guy?  He's been a problem this year and isn't getting any better.

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's been a problem this year in one narrow aspect.  He hasn't been a problem. 

I am even going to follow up on this.

Abreu has the 3rd highest fWAR of any qualifying 1B this season.  Only Goldschmit and Freeman are higher.  This number is higher in 127 games played of 2022, than 152 GP in 2021.  His RC+ is 142, vs 126 last year.

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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

This should be the Hahn's conversation with Abreu.

" I suck, you are too good for us. I'm sorry I fucked up the team around you. We now have to get younger and less expensive and hopefully better. We are going to let you explore your options on the Free Agent market. You deserve better and we will truly miss you leaving the organization, but Jerry wants you to know he wants you to remain with the White Sox, with your option as a  player, or in the clubhouse or front office. Jerry would like to meet with you to discuss further once our conversation is finished. We know that you will continue to serve the Chicago White Sox with a high level of excellence.

You are a great person, our best player over the past decade and one of the best in baseball, and I am truly grateful for everything you have done for the Chicago White Sox. I apologize for failing you and the team.

This is how this should go down on October 6, 2022.

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am even going to follow up on this.

Abreu has the 3rd highest fWAR of any qualifying 1B this season.  Only Goldschmit and Freeman are higher.  This number is higher in 127 games played of 2022, than 152 GP in 2021.  His RC+ is 142, vs 126 last year.

We tend to generally be on the same page on things.  If you keep Abreu, what do you do with Eloy and AV?  

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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

We tend to generally be on the same page on things.  If you keep Abreu, what do you do with Eloy and AV?  

Until Eloy shows he can stay consistently healthy, I don't care about him.  When the miracle happens with all three are healthy, you mix between 1B/LF and DH.

This team cannot afford to lose the most valuable and consistent bat we have. 

 

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46 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Are we just going to keep pretending he's still that guy?  He's been a problem this year and isn't getting any better.

Abreu has been a problem?  

WTF, are you high? 

He hasn't been MVP great, but he has been very very good. 

142 wRC+

.368 wOBA

That's 8th in the AL (min 400 ABs).    Ahead of Vlad Jr.   Yes, that Vlad Jr.

For perspective, Shoe Ohtani is going 145 /.373 and is ranked 7th.   

Edited by HOFHurt35
Meant AL not MLB
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5 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Two of those guys are the best hitters in the lineup and play every day. What to do with the other one should be obvious.

Yeah, see I am not giving Eloy away.  He's worth more to the Sox than anyone else.  What I am doing with him is making him the everyday DH and making it such that Gavin Sheets isn't penciled in as an everyday player so when Eloy only play 100 games, we have a built in replacement.

Giving up on Eloy makes 0 sense.  Just let the dude who is actually a FA and is the root cause of the awful team defense exit the picture before his production actually catches up to his age.  

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5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah, see I am not giving Eloy away.  He's worth more to the Sox than anyone else.  What I am doing with him is making him the everyday DH and making it such that Gavin Sheets isn't penciled in as an everyday player so when Eloy only play 100 games, we have a built in replacement.

Giving up on Eloy makes 0 sense.  Just let the dude who is actually a FA and is the root cause of the awful team defense exit the picture before his production actually catches up to his age.  

If you make Eloy the every day DH, then what happens to Vaughn or Abreu? Please don't say put Vaughn in the OF, that kills his value. If you want to not resign Jose, that's really the only way to keep Eloy but I think Eloy has trade value. and I think it's time for him to go.

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1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

If you make Eloy the every day DH, then what happens to Vaughn or Abreu? Please don't say put Vaughn in the OF, that kills his value. If you want to not resign Jose, that's really the only way to keep Eloy but I think Eloy has trade value. and I think it's time for him to go.

I literally just said what I'd do in the post you quoted..... I'd let Abreu walk. All three don't work on the same roster.  Its abundandly clear at this point.  

Trading Eloy for a dime on the dollar just to watch him hit 40 homers elsewhere next year?  Yeah, i'll pass.  

Edited by ChiSox59
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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I literally just said what I'd do in the post you quoted..... I'd let Abreu walk. All three don't work on the same roster.  Its abundandly clear at this point.  

Trading Eloy for a dime on the dollar just to watch him hit 40 homers elsewhere next year?  Yeah, i'll pass.  

What is better odds, Abreu hitting like he has the best decade or Eloy staying healthy?

The odds of Abreu's loss hurting the Sox way more is so much higher vs Eloy, it's not even funny.

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You shoot Eloy into the moon if you have to.  They should have traded him last off season to fill other holes.  He can't stay healthy, he can't play LF, he can barely run the bases without getting hurt.  Doesn't matter how much potential he has if he can't stay on the field.  If there is one thing he has shown, that is it. 

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3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

What is better odds, Abreu hitting like he has the best decade or Eloy staying healthy?

The odds of Abreu's loss hurting the Sox way more is so much higher vs Eloy, it's not even funny.

Except AV is a good bet to be close to as good as Abreu and you don’t have to ruin his value by sticking him in The OF, and he costs 1/30 as much as Abreu will. It also opens DH for Eloy and frees ~$15M AAV to sign a real OF that helps other team needs. 

Look, I love Jose Abreu. Build him a statue. I don’t think the org will let him walk. But they absolutely should. 

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8 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Except AV is a good bet to be close to as good as Abreu and you don’t have to ruin his value by sticking him in The OF, and he costs 1/30 as much as Abreu will. It also opens DH for Eloy and frees ~$15M AAV to sign a real OF that helps other team needs. 

Look, I love Jose Abreu. Build him a statue. I don’t think the org will let him walk. But they absolutely should. 

The offense is in zero position to afford to lose Jose Abreu.  They can't pay for the stupidity of their coaching staff being kneecapping the offense.  If they are, they might as well sell off the rest of the offense and start over.

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8 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Except AV is a good bet to be close to as good as Abreu and you don’t have to ruin his value by sticking him in The OF, and he costs 1/30 as much as Abreu will. It also opens DH for Eloy and frees ~$15M AAV to sign a real OF that helps other team needs. 

Look, I love Jose Abreu. Build him a statue. I don’t think the org will let him walk. But they absolutely should. 

If Jose wants market value then I agree the Sox should not re-sign him. If Jose wants to stay badly enough to take a hometown discount, then I don't see how you let him go. He's been the one guy who's performed consistently. Eloy is on a very team friendly deal. Even with his struggles he'll be in high demand on the trade market. He'd probably be in high enough demand that somebody would eat Leury's salary in order to get him.

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9 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Except AV is a good bet to be close to as good as Abreu and you don’t have to ruin his value by sticking him in The OF, and he costs 1/30 as much as Abreu will. It also opens DH for Eloy and frees ~$15M AAV to sign a real OF that helps other team needs. 

Look, I love Jose Abreu. Build him a statue. I don’t think the org will let him walk. But they absolutely should. 

They can free up the DH spot all they want, but we all know Eloy would not be the primary DH. He should be but we know better with this org.

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