Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 IMO, the Sox need two LH hitting OFs. One of those should eventually be Colas and the other should be a free agent or trade acquisition. Neither can be Sheets if we actually care about winning. Assuming Pollock exercises his team option, he should be the 4th OF and/or placeholder until we decide to call-up Oscar. As previously mentioned, I think 1B/DH should go to Abreu & Eloy. I just don’t see how we can improve the team by letting Abreu go and trading Eloy would be selling low IMO. I love Vaughn but he’s got the most value and can be used to land a 2B or SP. Sheets & Burger can be 3rd & 4th on the 1B/DH depth chart. For 3B I think we are pretty much forced to hold onto Yoan for many reasons. That being said, they need to come up with an off-season plan to add flexibility and I’d have Burger start the 2023 season in AAA playing 3B everyday to see if there is any hope of being playable there long-term just to be safe. Similar to Moncada, we are 100% stuck with Grandal. We are going to need a catcher who is an upgrade over Zavala and who can carry half the load. Perez should be waiting in the wings in AAA in the event we need to cut bait on Yaz early into the season. Not an ideal situation but don’t see another option here. 2B is tough because we continually go cheap here, but at the same time we have two legit prospects who should be able to take the job in the next 12 months and a semi-interesting option in Romy. The go for it move would be trading Vaughn+ for Jazz, but I’d probably prioritize using those assets toward a SP and go with an internal option to offset the insanely expensive bullpen and other dead money that are plaguing the roster. This all assumes that Tony & Menechino are gone and that a new staff will find a way to way to better utilize the raw power of this roster. Still far from perfect and you’re gambling on a lot of guys being healthier and/or improving, but the lineup has better balance and the OF defense is much improved. Unfortunately I don’t see a lot of better options given our sizable payroll commitments and many guys coming off horrible years. Anderson, SS Moncada, 3B# Abreu, 1B Jimenez, DH Conforto, LF* Robert, CF Colas, RF* Grandal, C# Sosa, 2B IF: Mendick/Romy OF: Pollock UT: Garcia# (barf) BC: FA/trade Cease Trade (Vaughn+) Kopech Giolito Lynn 9th: Hendriks 8th: Graveman 8th: Bummer* 7th: Lopez 7th: Diekman* 6th: Kelly 6th: Lambert LR: Martin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: IMO, the Sox need two LH hitting OFs. One of those should eventually be Colas and the other should be a free agent or trade acquisition. Neither can be Sheets if we actually care about winning. Assuming Pollock exercises his team option, he should be the 4th OF and/or placeholder until we decide to call-up Oscar. As previously mentioned, I think 1B/DH should go to Abreu & Eloy. I just don’t see how we can improve the team by letting Abreu go and trading Eloy would be selling low IMO. I love Vaughn but he’s got the most value and can be used to land a 2B or SP. Sheets & Burger can be 3rd & 4th on the 1B/DH depth chart. For 3B I think we are pretty much forced to hold onto Yoan for many reasons. That being said, they need to come up with an off-season plan to add flexibility and I’d have Burger start the 2023 season in AAA playing 3B everyday to see if there is any hope of being playable there long-term just to be safe. Similar to Moncada, we are 100% stuck with Grandal. We are going to need a catcher who is an upgrade over Zavala and who can carry half the load. Perez should be waiting in the wings in AAA in the event we need to cut bait on Yaz early into the season. Not an ideal situation but don’t see another option here. 2B is tough because we continually go cheap here, but at the same time we have two legit prospects who should be able to take the job in the next 12 months and a semi-interesting option in Romy. The go for it move would be trading Vaughn+ for Jazz, but I’d probably prioritize using those assets toward a SP and go with an internal option to offset the insanely expensive bullpen and other dead money that are plaguing the roster. This all assumes that Tony & Menechino are gone and that a new staff will find a way to way to better utilize the raw power of this roster. Still far from perfect and you’re gambling on a lot of guys being healthier and/or improving, but the lineup has better balance and the OF defense is much improved. Unfortunately I don’t see a lot of better options given our sizable payroll commitments and many guys coming off horrible years. Anderson, SS Moncada, 3B# Abreu, 1B Jimenez, DH Conforto, LF* Robert, CF Colas, RF* Grandal, C# Sosa, 2B IF: Mendick/Romy OF: Pollock UT: Garcia# (barf) BC: FA/trade Cease Trade (Vaughn+) Kopech Giolito Lynn 9th: Hendriks 8th: Graveman 8th: Bummer* 7th: Lopez 7th: Diekman* 6th: Kelly 6th: Lambert LR: Martin Replace Conforto with Nimmo and hit him leadoff and I like it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Sheets should be relied on as nothing more than a depth piece. He’s interesting but if Sox plug him in as the primary DH or a primary corner OF, they’re going to be bad again. The path forward should be simple: -Let Jose walk -Sign Nimmo -Call up Colas in May to take the other corner, shifting Pollock to 4th OF -Shift AV to 1B mostly fulltime -shift Eloy to DH mostly fulltime -Sheets can fill in for rest and injuries Team defense, lineup balance and athleticism take giant leaps forward. And we didn’t even spend much money. I can’t imagine Nimmo will be much more than 3-4 year deal around $15-17M AAV. Great, a $13 million backup OF, $18.25 million backup catcher, Giolito, Lynn, Kelly, Hendriks, Leury, Moncada, etc. Brilliant. 4D chess that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Great, a $13 million backup OF, $18.25 million backup catcher, Giolito, Lynn, Kelly, Hendriks, Leury, Moncada, etc. Brilliant. 4D chess that is. They're stuck paying him at this rate either if they cut him or bench him. The Kimbrel trade keeps on giving. Would have been better to just pay the $2 mill buyout on that Kimbrel option buuuuuut..... Edited August 31, 2022 by Bob Sacamano 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Replace Conforto with Nimmo and hit him leadoff and I like it. I went back and forth between the two of them. Just not sure they’ll have the financial ammo to sign Nimmo, but I’d be ecstatic if they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: I went back and forth between the two of them. Just not sure they’ll have the financial ammo to sign Nimmo, but I’d be ecstatic if they did. You're probably right. They're more likely to go cheap and sign the guy that missed the entire season (not that I'm against it, just want them to also add in other places if they do that). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Relevant to certain discussions: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 9 hours ago, fathom said: No more softball lineups. Real corner outfielders, Eloy at DH and choose one of the others to be 1B. Sheets not getting to that popup was essentially the play of the game. Difficult to measure the impact of that one play. I'd actually like to see Gavin and Vaughn at 1B the rest of the way to know if either can play average defense there. How the Sox clearly pivoted from 3 true outcome baseball to trying to aggressively hit line drives... yet play bad first basemen in the outfield, I'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 23 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: Sheets has progressed as a hitter......thank God he has a professional hitter as a father and not Dirty Frank. Sheets makes Vaughan an easy trade chip and you bring back Jose and let Eloy roam in LF I don't think there is anything easy about trading AV. I am open to it because I know the org will have a very hard time moving on from Jose, and there is no way to balance AV/Eloy/Jose on this roster. But I really struggle to come up with a good fit for an AV trade. I don't want to trade him for SP. A similar aged/controlled LH hitting middle infielder would be a great target. Someone like Andres Gimenez, but that intra-division swap is never going to happen. Maybe the Brian Reynolds swap as cheaper alternative contractually to Nimmo, and go internal at 2B between Sosa/Romy/Mendick/Leury at 2B. Trading AV is going to hurt, especially if he takes off with his new club while we watch the inevitable father time hit Jose while likely paying him more than he's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Sheets has looked better since he has tried to use all fields. He certainly has power. I didn't think he'd be a major league hitter, but now I think he's worth a try. He should play every day the rest of the season and get some ABs against lefties. He'll never learn to hit lefties if he doesn't face them. His last three homers brought in 8 runs. He's doing better than anyone else right now. Let him play and see what he can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Against RHP, absolutely. Sheets and Burger can be a great platoon at 1B. Trade Vaughn, let Abreu walk. Sheets and Burger platoon at 1B. But where do Sheets and Burger play? Edited August 31, 2022 by RibbieRubarb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Also, regarding Gavin: great game last night, but his god awful OF defense still was the difference in the game. What the Sox are doing to their pitchers in the OF is simply unacceptable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, greg775 said: Not attacking you just making a point. I can't believe how many people still hate on Abreu. Why the heck would you let the best player on the team, the one guy who cares, walk? Letting him walk doesn't mean "hate". We can't return with Eloy/Vaughn/Sheets/Burger/Abreu. We can't have 1B play OF on a daily basis again. Abreu is in his late 30s, and the others are in their 20s. The others are significantly cheaper and the Sox have other needs, but also a bunch of bad, bad contracts returning that limit the resources to achieve those needs. And then the question is whether the Sox can contend next season; if so, the value of keeping Abreu rises. I think they could, but the FO simply doesn't have the chops and, apparently, Hahn's THIRD regime failure isn't enough to bring in a FO that might be able to figure this out. 1 of Abreu/Vaughn/Eloy has to go. Vaughn is our best young talent, but very tradable with ascertainable value; trading Eloy means selling low at his current performance level (so/so year, injuries). It's a gnarly situation and tough choices have to be made. Edited August 31, 2022 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I don't think there is anything easy about trading AV. I am open to it because I know the org will have a very hard time moving on from Jose, and there is no way to balance AV/Eloy/Jose on this roster. But I really struggle to come up with a good fit for an AV trade. I don't want to trade him for SP. A similar aged/controlled LH hitting middle infielder would be a great target. Someone like Andres Gimenez, but that intra-division swap is never going to happen. Maybe the Brian Reynolds swap as cheaper alternative contractually to Nimmo, and go internal at 2B between Sosa/Romy/Mendick/Leury at 2B. Trading AV is going to hurt, especially if he takes off with his new club while we watch the inevitable father time hit Jose while likely paying him more than he's worth. Good thought process. I think the only way to get good value for Vaughn at this time would be if a contending team needed to be responsible with payroll (can't just sign one) AND needed a first baseman. And in this scenario, that contending team isn't going to be super excited about giving up MLB ready talent, because they need it to contend. So you probably would have to take prospects back or really luck out that they somehow have a similar have a corner outfield surplus? Seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 10 hours ago, GreenSox said: He'll probably be a solid major league hitter. Of course if you read a lot of the bloggers, he should rarely play. As for the logjam, Vaughn is probably the only one whose real value can be ascertained, and, thus, could reliably be traded. They need to let Abreu walk. Absolutely not. This team is in no way better without Abreu. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grinder Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Yep hes legit. Hahn will sign him to a long term and very expensive contact then he will do the inevitable swan dive back to mediocracy. Its the White Sox way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 I kind of doubt it, but I really hope he is for real. It would make things a lot easier with another lefty power bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: It's not about hating Abreu. This team has too many 1B/DH types and Abreu is just the guy whose contract is up. They need to allocate that payroll elsewhere. It will be sad to see him go, but it needs to happen. Abreu will also be 36 next year and it's better to move on too early than too late. If you still believe in Vaughn, it's his time at 1B now. It doesn't matter what you do with your "allocations" if you are dumping your best hitter to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 50 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Relevant to certain discussions: As much as they should, the White Sox don't have the stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 The Sox made this mistake last year and paid for it when Gavin has been bad for most of this year. I wouldn't let one Sheets hot streak dictate whether they get rid of Vaughn or Abreu. I also wouldn't let him get in the way of signing a left handed power hitting OFer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said: Daily reminder that Abreu is the best position player on the team and its not particularly close. While I agree, with Vaughn's age and development he is likely to surpass Abreu next year. And Vaughn isn't injury prone. They need to accept the fact that they cannot play a first baseman in the outfield if they want to be competent. As much as I LOVE Abreu and what he brings to the team, I think they need to let him walk. Put Vaughn at first, DH Sheets, go out and find an actual competent outfielder, and I'd even go as far to say try to trade Jimenez. I just don't think the team can trust him to be productive based on his health history. Actually I think it's foolish to. They got Cease out of the Quintana trade. That's a win. So, go and find 2 competent outfielders. Edited August 31, 2022 by ScooterMcGuire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 If “real” is a roughly replacement level player, then yes. ~110 wRC+ with poor defense is sort of how most of us always pegged him, though, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Relevant to certain discussions: Boras says he will sign this year but that doesn't necessarily mean today I suppose. I feel like he signs a contract somewhere that will run through next year, whether today, next month, off-season. Edited August 31, 2022 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Boras says he will sign this year but that doesn't necessarily mean today I suppose. I feel like he signs a contract somewhere that will run through next year, whether today, next month, off-season. Yeah, sadly, today being the cutoff for postseason eligibility isn't relevant to the conversation of the Sox signing him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Keep Abreu, keep Vaughn, and go sign a player that relegates Sheets to “depth in Charlotte.” That shouldn’t be very difficult, honestly. Eloy needs time to recover so that he doesn’t reinjure himself. Hopefully that happens over the offseason. If he can’t play the OF without getting hurt, he hasn’t shown enough to be rosterable as a pure DH. He needs to keep getting opportunities in LF until he plays himself out of those or he gets replaced by a better player. The latter scenario might need to happen sooner than we want it. But if it does, that’s fine. Eloy can go back to Charlotte and try to climb the ladder again. If he’s as good as we hoped, then we won’t have any problem getting another shot if he can stay on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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