Will "core" players be traded before Spring Training?

[pcq]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:28 AM, Lip Man 1 said:

Harrison is a free agent. Do you mean Garcia instead?

I thought Josh had an option.  I might have described it wrong. I suppose they are stuck with Leury. I hope they don't count on Grandal making a comeback. Good grief. 

[pcq]

Let me venture a guess that Jose understands he might no longer be a full time player here.  Without a guaranteed rate of pay or play, his options are open.  

[Jack Parkman]

Idk where to put this

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

Of course his numbers trended down. He played hurt.

[ScootsMcGoots]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:03 AM, Sarava said:

I really don't know what they're going to do. It's a weird case where it feels necessary, but at the same time, just about all of them would be a 'sell low' situation, where you likely end up losing the trade badly. I would feel more confident in this process if Hahn was let go and a new GM had the reigns over moving core guys. Hahn almost never wins trades of major leaguers for major leaguers.

You and them both.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Of course his numbers trended down. He played hurt.

That's the problem with most of the core. They aren't worth what they are starting to get paid until they start playing more games and living up to the hype.

Robert may never be the runner and fielder he once was due to the major injury and constant injuries since.

The odd thing about him playing hurt and 1 handed was that he didn't even bother looking at more pitches. You would think that he and his coaches MIGHT suggest that now would be a good time to work on your plate discipline since you are having a hard time swinging the bat and look for pitches to drive. Nope he just went up there hacking.

Your walk rate shouldn't be trending down when you swing 1 handed. The pitchers pitch him the same, a ton of stuff off the plate,sliders away, curves and sinkers down, fastballs/cutters in. He just refused to stop swinging at it all.

Sox need to think about him playing a corner and if they look for any LH OF, expand the search to include CF.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That's the problem with most of the core. They aren't worth what they are starting to get paid until they start playing more games and living up to the hype.

Robert may never be the runner and fielder he once was due to the major injury and constant injuries since.

The odd thing about him playing hurt and 1 handed was that he didn't even bother looking at more pitches. You would think that he and his coaches MIGHT suggest that now would be a good time to work on your plate discipline since you are having a hard time swinging the bat and look for pitches to drive. Nope he just went up there hacking.

Your walk rate shouldn't be trending down when you swing 1 handed. The pitchers pitch him the same, a ton of stuff off the plate,sliders away, curves and sinkers down, fastballs/cutters in. He just refused to stop swinging at it all.

Sox need to think about him playing a corner and if they look for any LH OF, expand the search to include CF.

I think Luis had about one good swing he could make per at bat before the pain built to unbearable, and no ability to check his swing on a close pitch, so he was trying to swing and make contact at the first pitch that was anywhere close. You could see how he would get worse the longer the at bats went.

[Dick Allen]

The one question you have with Robert is, and it's the same question you probably have with TA, Moncada, Eloy, even Vaughn, basically the entire positon player core, can they ever make it through a season without a significant injury or 2 or 3? 

A competent manager, change the hitting approach, and all these guys go back to being really good, and healthy, suddenly, you have enough to make up for deficiencies elsewhere, especially in the ALC. 

But what are the odds?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I think Luis had about one good swing he could make per at bat before the pain built to unbearable, and no ability to check his swing on a close pitch, so he was trying to swing and make contact at the first pitch that was anywhere close. You could see how he would get worse the longer the at bats went.

Well that's about the stupidest approach possible. He's a free swinger as it is so why even bother throwing him a strike ever ? That's how pitchers approach him. He swings at the 1st pitch a LOT . 1st rule of baseball: you become a much better hitter when you get ahead in the count and a much worse hitter when you get behind.Why swing to make contact if swinging at all is painful . You need to look at more pitches any way to eventually reach your full potential so what better time to look at more pitches than when it hurts to swing the bat ?

Edited October 10, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well that's about the stupidest approach possible. He's a free swinger as it is so why even bother throwing him a strike ever ? That's how pitchers approach him. He swings at the 1st pitch a LOT . 1st rule of baseball: you become a much better hitter when you get ahead in the count and a much worse hitter when you get behind.Why swing to make contact if swinging at all is painful . You need to look at more pitches any way to eventually reach your full potential so what better time to look at more pitches than when it hurts to swing the bat ?

Well there wasn’t exactly any good reason for him to be playing.

[Lip Man 1]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well that's about the stupidest approach possible. He's a free swinger as it is so why even bother throwing him a strike ever ? That's how pitchers approach him. He swings at the 1st pitch a LOT . 1st rule of baseball: you become a much better hitter when you get ahead in the count and a much worse hitter when you get behind.Why swing to make contact if swinging at all is painful . You need to look at more pitches any way to eventually reach your full potential so what better time to look at more pitches than when it hurts to swing the bat ?

Based on what I've seen these guys aren't the smartest baseball players around, and I mean that from a purely baseball standpoint.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

8 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Based on what I've seen these guys aren't the smartest baseball players around, and I mean that from a purely baseball standpoint.

Our baseball players seem to always have the lowest baseball IQ

[Highland]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well there wasn’t exactly any good reason for him to be playing.

Exactly. After the injury to his hand, Robert should not have been in the lineup. He couldn't even hold onto the bat. This is when the macho stuff about playing hurt just doesn't make sense. I don't care how tough a player is, the human body will only let a person do so much. Then it begins to break down.

Every time I saw him swing with one hand, I wondered what the White Sox were thinking. The guy just wasn't hurt, he was injured. I swear I have never seen something so stupid. But this is the White Sox. But remember this: it's the fans' fault. Just ask the baseball genius Stoney.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well there wasn’t exactly any good reason for him to be playing.

That'ss besides the point. As long as you are in there playing make the best of it and use it as a learning process. I'd be telling him look I know you're hurt and it hurts to swing. Look at the 1st 2 pitches .Look at the spin , the release point. They're supposed to know the pitchers' strengths and weaknesses and have a plan against them. He should know already how he is going to be pitched. It's up to him to learn to make pitchers throw him strikes and if they don't then take the bloody walk. Learning opportunity misused by a dumb player or dumb coaches not telling him what he should be doing .

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That'ss besides the point. As long as you are in there playing make the best of it and use it as a learning process. I'd be telling him look I know you're hurt and it hurts to swing. Look at the 1st 2 pitches .Look at the spin , the release point. They're supposed to know the pitchers' strengths and weaknesses and have a plan against them. He should know already how he is going to be pitched. It's up to him to learn to make pitchers throw him strikes and if they don't then take the bloody walk. Learning opportunity misused by a dumb player or dumb coaches not telling him what he should be doing .

If he gets two strikes on him though he’s an automatic out, he can’t protect the plate. He can’t make pitchers work and he can’t foul things off. He has to hit the first strike he gets, it’s not a good strategy but it’s not wrong.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Our baseball players seem to always have the lowest baseball IQ

To be fair, so did our manager.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

48 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he gets two strikes on him though he’s an automatic out, he can’t protect the plate. He can’t make pitchers work and he can’t foul things off. He has to hit the first strike he gets, it’s not a good strategy but it’s not wrong.

He was an automatic out anyway . What did he go while he was playing injured 1 for 30 or something ? Work the count , and maybe u actually get a walk to help that way with your speed or maybe the pitcher grooves one. He does not have to swing at the 1st strike he get's because he can't tell the difference between balls and strikes good enough. But he does recognize hangers pretty good.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If he gets two strikes on him though he’s an automatic out, he can’t protect the plate. He can’t make pitchers work and he can’t foul things off. He has to hit the first strike he gets, it’s not a good strategy but it’s not wrong.

And since I was talking out of my ass based on what I saw from him this season I will back it up now that my eye test was extremely accurate.

Checking statcast info Robert's 1st pitch swing % was 49% , highest on the team.

His normal swing % is 61.5 % so thats of all the pitches he sees he swings 61.5% of the time ! and that leads to this. Guess who on the Sox gets the least amount of meatballs to hit ? It's Luis Robert whose Meatball % is 5.6%.

Yes there is a statcast thing called Meatball % !

If anyone needs to lay off of pitches it's Robert and he couldn't even TRY to do it when he was hurt which was the perfect time to do it. Just terrible terrible coaching or Robert just not listening.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And since I was talking out of my ass based on what I saw from him this season I will back it up now that my eye test was extremely accurate.

Checking statcast info Robert's 1st pitch swing % was 49% , highest on the team.

His normal swing % is 61.5 % so thats of all the pitches he sees he swings 61.5% of the time ! and that leads to this. Guess who on the Sox gets the least amount of meatballs to hit ? It's Luis Robert whose Meatball % is 5.6%.

Yes there is a statcast thing called Meatball % !

If anyone needs to lay off of pitches it's Robert and he couldn't even TRY to do it when he was hurt which was the perfect time to do it. Just terrible terrible coaching or Robert just not listening.

Probably both.

[JoeC]

14 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

If anyone needs to lay off of pitches it's Robert and he couldn't even TRY to do it when he was hurt which was the perfect time to do it. Just terrible terrible coaching or Robert just not listening.

A talented player with a hole in his game that is never developed.

Seems to be a pattern for the Sox.

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, JoeC said:

A talented player with a hole in his game that is never developed.

Seems to be a pattern for the Sox.

Yep, which is why the front office, scouting dept, farm system coaches and managers need to be changed and improved. 

The good teams like Tampa and Cleveland to name a few, with limited payrolls discovered this novel idea in baseball! To have a winning playoff organization, you simply need greatness in your scouts, minor league coaches/managers and FO people, as well as a top notch manager and coaching staff on the major league level. This seems to be the blueprint the Sox are clueless on, in order to find the right players to draft and develop, who will have well rounded baseball skills and be able to work hard at being in the best shape to play healthy. 

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yep, which is why the front office, scouting dept, farm system coaches and managers need to be changed and improved. 

The good teams like Tampa and Cleveland to name a few, with limited payrolls discovered this novel idea in baseball! To have a winning playoff organization, you simply need greatness in your scouts, minor league coaches/managers and FO people, as well as a top notch manager and coaching staff on the major league level. This seems to be the blueprint the Sox are clueless on, in order to find the right players to draft and develop, who will have well rounded baseball skills and be able to work hard at being in the best shape to play healthy. 

Yep.

It's such a White Sox thing to just assume linear development of prospects, and whatever you get at the end is what you get.